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Halcyon wrote:I think the catch cans may actually be causing this issue.
The only reason I fitted a catch can was because I got fed up of cleaning out the intake due to the standard Mazda arrangement not doing it's job properly
After this occurring on around 6 occasions,and only 1 of those occasions was the oil actually overfilled,I'd finally had enough and fitted the can.I knew this solution would not stop the oil getting sucked up but 2 mins to empty the can is way better than the best part of an hour removing & cleaning the air box,MAF & throttle body IMO
In my case I have recently had a series of issues, prior to fitting a catch can. Fitting the catch can did not resolve them. My take is that the 8mm dia pipe that connects the top of the filler tube to either the intake, or catch can if fitted, can not shift enough gas in high revs/high load situations, and the problems stem from there.
Stewart, are you the guy that's currently testing the "vent-to-atmosphere" for Ben to help prove whether oil is being sucked up or blown up? If so, any issues with oil being blown up the filler tube?
Re. blow-by gasses, on an engine with good compression, I presume that some gas will make it into the sump regardless since all seals cannot be 100% perfect. If so, my rebuilt engine only started filling the catch can after about 4000 miles. One would have thought that with seals becoming more bedded in with more miles driven then the likely hood of filling the catch can would be less...if the issue is caused by blow-by gasses.
So, in a nutshell, I'm still confused as to why it happens and wonder if anyone is any wiser given that many of us are seeing this problem. For me, it even happened when the oil was well under the halfway mark.
Steve
NG 230, T/B leather, SS strakes, RR rebuild, Sohn adaptor
Yes, that is me. Based on experiences over the weekend at Blyton, it looks like it is definitely blowing in my case. I need to sort some time with Ben and look at it further, as the Blyton test was the next step we were following to fully figuring out what is going on. I am back at Blyton in a couple of weeks, so will be doing so more testing to try and refine what we know. Will keep you posted if I find out anything further.
As Stew knows, I forgot to replace my oil filler cap at Blyton last weekend after topping up to about 3/4 at the very start of the day. I did 3 hard sessions of ~15 minutes each on track before I spotted what I'd done (plonker!). Anyway, the open top of the filler was bone dry and they was ZERO sign of an oil having been blown out anywhere in the engine bay. I fully expected a massive clean up job, bit nothing . So any appearance of oil at the filler neck is certainly not a routine occurrence, even when the nuts are being revved off the engine and the car being significantly thrown about!
So, basic question, why did Stew's engine vent oil and mine didn't, even with filler cap off
I hope someone can find out the cause, as this seems to happen to a significant minority of engines and understanding the cause will lead to a solution.
Essex Rotary Full Bridgeport Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
Perhaps that lends weight to what I was thinking. Any gas that was venting out of the filler pipe did not have to deal with the constriction of being forced down the pipe to the intake. My suspicion is that under some conditions, the gas flow rate exceeds what that pipe is capable of transporting away and so pressure builds behind as the system effectively becomes closed. No filler cap = no restriction = no closed system for pressure to build in. Maybe I should run with the filler cap removed
Also, you have the breather mod, which should allow a great flow rate for any gas as there are 3 pipes to exit out of rather than one (if I understand the mod correctly).
<disclaimer>
This may all be cobblers. I am waiting on someone who actually knows what the hell they are talking about to confirm whether my theory holds water.
</disclaimer>
If the breather mod you're referring to is the one from the top of the oil filler tube to the lower intake manifold, then isn't that tube still the same diameter and therefore just as restrictive? The fact it splits at a T to go to both intake nipples shouldn't help if the upper end is still restrictive to the flow of gases.
NG 230, T/B leather, SS strakes, RR rebuild, Sohn adaptor
Ah there you go. I hadn't seen the mod in detail. I though there were multiple tubes from the filler pipe rather than a single one that splits. That could well be my theory up in smoke. With the mod there is still a feed off to the intake tho as well isn't there, so ultimately you have 3 paths (2x links to the maintenance ports and 1x to the intake). Do they all feed off the same source pipe from the filler?
MARKTHOMASBRAND wrote:I thought the breather mod was fitted by Mazda to solve the mayo on the dipstick problem and nothing to do with oil in the intake
Regards,Mark.
Correct, I was speculating whether it might also have some other benefits wrt the oil problem. But, as with Stew;
<disclaimer>
This may all be cobblers. I am waiting on someone who actually knows what the hell they are talking about to confirm whether my theory holds water.
</disclaimer>
Essex Rotary Full Bridgeport Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet, "Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3
This probably wont help, but I may as well just throw my setup into the discussion: Hayward bridge ported 231 engine, <2006/7 engine with no breather mods, and no catch can. The only oil that's been in my intake is the result of my own stupidity
Stew, I wonder if you could modify an oil filler cap to fit a wider diameter pipe to the top of the filler neck?
Mazdas breather mod adds a second breather pipe from the sump. So 1 into the upper intake and one that tee's off down to the lower intake. Also worth noting that the lower intake will create a negative atmosphere since it sucks hard.
FYI everyone Christine's 'oil leak' was infact her newly fitted catch can over flowing
benedunn wrote:Mazdas breather mod adds a second breather pipe from the sump. So 1 into the upper intake and one that tee's off down to the lower intake.
Thanks for the info Ben. I wondered where the tube from the upper intake disappered to.
Would adding a breather to an original S1 sump be an easy thing to do (ie. leak proof)? And if so, would that mean we'd need two catch cans, or just the one before the upper air intake? That's probably more relevant to those using fully synthetic in the sump.
NG 230, T/B leather, SS strakes, RR rebuild, Sohn adaptor
Ian.Mothersole wrote:This probably wont help, but I may as well just throw my setup into the discussion: Hayward bridge ported 231 engine, <2006/7 engine with no breather mods, and no catch can. The only oil that's been in my intake is the result of my own stupidity
I'm with Ian on this one, mine is a Hayward rebuild 2009, no overfilling issues, had no issues on track days etc. Put a catch can on and what happens on the first track day with it on, she decides she's going to vomit more oil into the catch can than she can cope with, resulting in oil all over the floor.
Titanium Grey, bling wheels (set number 6) Now gone but will never be forgotten, sat nav, I-mob tracking, SS Strakes, full set of RB grills, K&N Filter and Borla zorst. Now lowered.
Just ask me where anything is, it will be in the boot!!
Now she's "the reasonably priced car is the star" as driven by Jason Plato on Fifth Gear.
Maybe she was just that way out on Saturday morning
Titanium Grey, bling wheels (set number 6) Now gone but will never be forgotten, sat nav, I-mob tracking, SS Strakes, full set of RB grills, K&N Filter and Borla zorst. Now lowered.
Just ask me where anything is, it will be in the boot!!
Now she's "the reasonably priced car is the star" as driven by Jason Plato on Fifth Gear.
I fitted mine today but I could not fit beside brake fluid tank like some members because of 1 metal pipe So instead i moved to the right but my inlet is higher than oil filler.Bottom of the tank is lower tahn oil cap.Is it still ok?
On 1st photo yellow arrow shows ''usual'' place for tank
On 2nd photo there is that pipe,I belive from stock but if my tank can be ''higher'' than oil filler Im happy.
Waiting for answers lads:D
Thanks
231 Done: 2x NCT,Tax changed to 1.3,Toyo full exhaust,oil cooler pipes,remedy high flow water pump,custom guages,poly bushes all round,KN panel filter,fitted baby seat In progress: a lot
To do: fix some rust
All information are here....anyway u need 8mm or 9mm.Color of your choice 2m will do
231 Done: 2x NCT,Tax changed to 1.3,Toyo full exhaust,oil cooler pipes,remedy high flow water pump,custom guages,poly bushes all round,KN panel filter,fitted baby seat In progress: a lot
To do: fix some rust