New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

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Supercharger Kit, would you buy one?

100% positive I would buy the kit mentioned
0
No votes
Would like to purchase a kit but finance would be difficult
4
57%
I'm on the fence about this kit
3
43%
I dont think the Rx8 market needs a Supercharger.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 7

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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by 350matt » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:49 pm

hows this kit looking chaps any update?

also Kenne Bell charge for $2000 for a charger, that seems quite expensive as eaton R900's are about $1200 and a 1320 is $1400

as theres' loads of info on their site on how their unit is better than an eaton (which doesn't quite ring true, as all the comparisons are a big kenne bell vs a smaller eaton)?

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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:19 am

Hi Matt

Thanks for the information, nothing further to update here I'm afraid.

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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by Pensive » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:41 pm

Any news?!! :D :D

I'm hearing a lot of people saying they are working on it but not a lot of available kits - mainly because people don't seem to be willing to fork out 6 grand on a 1500 quid car. The kits that are available are painfully expensive compared to a big turbo kit for more popular hot hatches.

I'm considering doing my own backwoods DIY style - experimenting initially with not using an intercooler to save money.

With an ultimate goal of increased torque low down, and a peak power output not intending to exceed around 280 to 300 RWHP.

Most people say 6-8psi doesn't really need an intercooler (greddy dont even include one with their 6psi turbo kit as it robs power), and since we don't want to over-boost the renny anyway we might get away with this and create a cheaper kit. Of course hotter air might need to be crushed up a couple more PSI to compensate for it's additional heat but that could be just a pulley adjustment.

The other consideration is of course heat + renny = bad but considering the petroleum based explosions it's designed for i think this would be a negligible impact.

I might be minded to hold back if a new kit was going to be available soon, but at the same time it doesn't seem to be too complicated, once the right pipework is in place it's all just a map day away.

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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by 350matt » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:40 pm

you can install a charger with no cooler but even at 0.5 bar of boost you'll still be getting 80 degC coming out of the charger

so you can see that its cheap power really, as getting that 80 back down to 30 means a substantial power gain plus less chances of having to pull all the spark out of it , resulting in even higher exhaust temps

I'd agree that the car needs a positive displacement blower though to fill in the low end part of the torque curve
and if you can source a good sized blower from a Jag or Audi then this will help with temps as you can run this slower and generate less heat

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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by Rotary Potato » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:49 pm

350matt wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:40 pm
...

I'd agree that the car needs a positive displacement blower though to fill in the low end part of the torque curve
and if you can source a good sized blower from a Jag or Audi then this will help with temps as you can run this slower and generate less heat
Does a larger blower not have larger parasitic losses? So unless you're running it at full chat (thus generating the most additional power), you'd be better off with a smaller unit.

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick somewhere? :lol:
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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by Lemon » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:11 pm

Rotary Potato wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:49 pm
350matt wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:40 pm
...

I'd agree that the car needs a positive displacement blower though to fill in the low end part of the torque curve
and if you can source a good sized blower from a Jag or Audi then this will help with temps as you can run this slower and generate less heat
Does a larger blower not have larger parasitic losses? So unless you're running it at full chat (thus generating the most additional power), you'd be better off with a smaller unit.

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick somewhere? :lol:
are there not issues with the amount of air required by the Renesis though, from what i recall other saying you need a bigger blower just to supply enough air.
Thanks, Stu

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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by 350matt » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:08 am

Rotary Potato wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:49 pm
350matt wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:40 pm
...

I'd agree that the car needs a positive displacement blower though to fill in the low end part of the torque curve
and if you can source a good sized blower from a Jag or Audi then this will help with temps as you can run this slower and generate less heat
Does a larger blower not have larger parasitic losses? So unless you're running it at full chat (thus generating the most additional power), you'd be better off with a smaller unit.

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick somewhere? :lol:
no your're quite right a larger blower will take more poke to turn
as with all things its a compromise
a larger blower will make boost quicker / lower in the speed range but it then costs more to run it higher up the rev range
when we did the simulation work on a making an SC kit for the FA20 we looked at the R900 and the R1320 units and concluded for a 2.0 ltr engine the smaller unit actually gave better performance on the top end when running 0.6 bar of boost

trouble is any SC kit for this car would have to be cheap to be considered on a £1500 car so using a 2nd hand blower will be the route most would choose even then you're looking at a the thick end of £2K to get it all in an working I'd say

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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by rameshr » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:36 am

I like the sound of cheap supercharger...£2k for decent power is not much considering most have spent way more in suspension/brake (myself included). If you guys in the know can make a kit list would be great to try


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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:34 am

Trust me when I say, £2K just isn't going to cut it, one off custom pulley kit would be £500 roughly as CAD and computer programming cost dearly and it takes time to recoup this.

Then there's the blower, don't really like roots/fixed displacement for the 8, I've had first hand experience and it ruins what the 8 is all about, screw type would be my preference. Budget £750-2000

My choice would be the kennebell 2.1L for which my pulley system is compatible and available via my website.

Then there's the manifolds brackets etc, well costs here just run into £1000s depending how nice you want it.

If there had been enough interest I would have produced a kit already, but infortunately there just isn't that interest instead we have gone down the peripheral route to make the power increases most desire.

Good luck with it though should you take it on!

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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by MightyCondor » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:44 am

Given the advantages of the peripheral exhaust ported engine, it would be a shame not to have a nice big supercharger unit to add to it... :twisted:
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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by 350matt » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:30 pm

I was more thinking the 2K price would be component prices, making everything else myself, so no CAD labour charge plus the Eaton units are kind of a cross between the classic rootes bi-lobe rotor and a screw compressor as they are an interlocking rotor design
efficiency is about 1% less than the screw type but they can rev a lot higher ( 22,000 vs 15,000) so this and their availability outweighs this minor loss

I may get onto it at some point or I may not.
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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by warpc0il » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:38 pm

As long as this type of compressor was fed with a good, clean and cool supply of air, would the action of compressing actually raise the temperature of the intake air by 60C?

Many FI installations compromise too much on the location of the air filter, such that they're eating engine bay air, and obviously a turbocharger has heat transfer from the exhaust, but a supercharger is just a compressor.

Sure, compressing air heats it but the harder the unit works, the more it is getting cooled by the air flow through it, so it's not the same as a compressor building pressure into a close tank.

Someone needs to do the maths here and share their assumptions before I'd be convinced.

I'm not saying that there couldn't be further gains from fitting an intercooler, but doesn't the cost. packaging and airflow resistance really make a case for fitting without one?

Water/meth injection could also be an option...
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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by wiggles » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:57 pm

Stick the blower on top of the engine out of the bonnet like the yanks love to do 😉
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Re: New Supercharger kit

Post by PeteH » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:29 pm

Adiabatic compression at 0.5bar gauge (about 7psi) gives a temperature rise of 12.3%. So if the air going in is at 20degC the air coming out will be at 56degC.

Your 0.5bar boost will gain you about 34% more power, without an intercooler.

If you use an intercooler, and it drops the air back to 20degC, you will get 11% more air into the chamber, making 11% more power than without the intercooler. That's a total of 50% more power, instead of 34%. And the gain may be even higher because of better knock prevention.
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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:30 am

This project is now back in play, so look forward to updates soon :)

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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by njkmr » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:35 am

Awesome.
Look forward to more on this

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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by New Duke » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:08 pm

Great news! Given the thousands of pounds and time that some engine mods cost (including ancillary parts) for a 20-30 extra HP, your project always seemed excellent value. Hopefully when more people hear about it a buzz will spread. Might be worth getting a known YouTuber or two to show it off down the line.

Does the discontinuation of your pulley kit for the R3 take future development of your SC for that model off the table?

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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:06 pm

Work has started! :)
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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by V8 Power » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:10 pm

Looking good!
Judging by the effort and attention to detail RRP put into sorting my RX8 out with its unique challenges I am sure that this will be a resounding success.
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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by 350matt » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:30 pm

Looks like you're opting for a custom blower?

wouldn't it better to just buy an R1320 off the shelf from Magnuson?
its plenty big enough and now comes with a front entry alongside the pulley
https://www.magnusonsuperchargers.com/

happy to discuss offline, if I can help having been through the process of making a kit already

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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:57 pm

350matt wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:30 pm
Looks like you're opting for a custom blower?

wouldn't it better to just buy an R1320 off the shelf from Magnuson?
its plenty big enough and now comes with a front entry alongside the pulley
https://www.magnusonsuperchargers.com/

happy to discuss offline, if I can help having been through the process of making a kit already
It is off the shelf, just with a little extra ;)

Fancy a job on the development team :P

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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by 350matt » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:37 pm

glad to help if I can
just PM me

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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:16 pm

Thanks - To be honest we have most items in place, I have had some pretty good experience with supercharged rotaries having tuned a few and owned two types of charger, I know what works and what doesn't. I released parts to improve on the Pettit kit which made it a very good kit indeed.

I'm kind of going a new direction with this one, no more nodular design, this will be an all out premium kit with no expense spared, all that matters is getting it right.

Hopefully some more updates soon so keep watching.

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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by geofftl1000r » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:20 pm

Having worked at a bike shop that built supercharged bikes using the Rotrex blowers, I am more then slightly interested. :thumright:
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Ryan Rotary Performance
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Re: New Supercharger kit - Back in development 13/09/2018

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:45 pm

Pulleys and faceplate now moddled :D
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