Track day slick tyres?

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Track day slick tyres?

Post by Flameshades » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:22 pm

ok so let me start with this is purely a cost thing and not because i think i can outdrive road tyres by any stretch

there is a chance to get some used 245 65 r18 tyres for next to nothing (as far as tyres go) when i say used they are 1 race worn and then changed so should have a few track days in them!

i will have a cage and FIA seats in so i cant see there being an issue with "safety" but wanted to check before i sink some money into useless tires,

thanks as always
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by bigpete » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:35 pm

I think as long as you have a roll cage you can run slicks
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by warpc0il » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:36 pm

These will raise your gearing by 17.6% and your speedo will therefore under read by the amount, i.e. @ indicated 70 you'd be doing 82mph.

Most guys look to lower the gearing for track use, though it may just mean you'd spend most of your lap in 2nd-3rd, rather than 3rd-4th, depending on the track.

It also means that the sidewalls are 17% taller which, even on a race tyre, is going to create a lot more movement.

If these are from single-seater racing then they will have flexy sidewalls anyway, as they have very little weight and the tyre flex is a major parts of the "suspension".
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Flameshades » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:40 pm

they are from a BTCC car so i assume they are going to be good for our weight cars, as for the gearing i will be too busy looking at where im going to take notice of speed :D

i could get a set of 595s but at the current price i would be getting 2 slicks to 1 federal :S

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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by suicide-racer » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:58 pm

Used to run ex BTCC slicks on my cossie track car. Once you get them up to temperature they're great. Don't do what I done & try give it some on the first lap with cold tyres. :oops:

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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by suicide-racer » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:00 pm

PS if you get the chance of the wets, snap them up. Great when its chucking it down. :wink:

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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Ranjan » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:54 pm

Gary,

Two points:

1. Buy some semi-slicks first and get used to driving on those. These tyres take time to warm up and do not work well in wet conditions; slicks are a hell of a lot worse in both respects. The number of people I have seen going off on the first lap on a track day on slicks because they equate slicks with grip but driving on cold slicks is like being on ice.

2. I am not a great fan of buying slicks second-hand as the heat cycle in conditioning slicks is really important to longevity and grip and you can never tell by the rubber surface.

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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Flameshades » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:07 pm

Thanks Ranjan

was more of a cost saving exercise to be fair, but if its going to cause all manor of issues i will leave it for now :)

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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by macgtech » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:36 pm

I think your biggest issues is that if you start to use them well, you could start getting lots of body roll and cause lots of rub issues unless you have significantly stiffer springs.

I would say worth a go. On the heat front, just take it easy for a lap or two and you should be fine.
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Conan » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:41 pm

It's not worth it,
With that hight and width the car would stuggle with the HP it has.
It would be like putting 365 wide road tyres all round at least.
They won't work at all in the wet and you can't drive it on the road, well :)
I was only using 250 rear and 180 front on my road legal race kit car with 600+ BHP per ton.
It's not like there £40 the set, how much is a set of second hand 595,s?
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Flameshades » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:44 pm

i can pick the BTCC tires up for £45 quid a tyre Pete that's the issue :)
and im hoping to have near to 400HP at the wheels so hopefully that would heat them :)
but yeah i see they might be more effort than they are worth :)

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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Will66 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:09 pm

I'm assuming the size you got is 240/650R18.

Worth pointing out that slicks are sized differently from road tyres. On a road tyre the numbers break look like this 245/40R18: 245 refers to the tread width in millimetres; 45 refers to profile (the height of the sidewall expressed as a percentage of the width) and R18 which is the rim diameter in inches. On slicks they're different: on a 240/650R18 slick 240 is the width of the tread in millimetres; 650 is the circumference in millimetres and R18 is the rim diameter in inches. A 240/650R18 slick is the right size for a stock RX8 rim.

I ran a couple of sprints and autocross type things with a set of ex-Porsche Cup slicks on mine, the grip was insane! But you need a roll cage to run them on a trackday if the organisers let you use them at all. The grip is so high you can get problems with oil surge so you need a baffled sump or fuel surge. Also, when cold they're awful, like driving on oil initially.
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Liam22 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:17 pm

The biggest thing you'll notice is the braking performance . Cornering speeds will be secondary. You will need a brake upgrade to match the tyres!

Your springs and dampers may also need reworking.

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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Flameshades » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:32 pm

Liam.....you havent seen my thread have you :) there isnt much stock left on my car v:D
have BBK
have coilovers
have cage
have greddy sump....

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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Will66 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:35 pm

Have a go with them! That's the only way you'll really find out!
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Bulldog » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:24 pm

My concern would be the speed at which they let go

All the grip in the world and then nothing at all

Road tyres are very progressive, semis are progressive but slicks are all or nothing
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Will66 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:54 pm

I think sudden breakaway is only the case if you get a change of conditions, dry to wet for instance. On a dry track slicks are designed to operate at a degree of slip (I think 12% slip is optimum performance) so their breakaway performance should be relatively progressive. Everything is relative and a "progressive" breakaway at the limits of performance of a race slick will be quite rapid simply due to the speed involved but you should get exceptional feedback from slicks so you ought to feel the limits getting close.
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Phil Bate » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:40 pm

Bulldog wrote:All the grip in the world and then nothing at all
Just like Autogrips, except for the grip part...
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by macgtech » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:55 am

In the previous example 650 is the DIAMETER not the circumference.

The 225/45/18's I measured have ~640 diameter, so you should be fine with the 650's.
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by warpc0il » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:05 pm

While the loss of grip might be progressive, not having drive a road car on slicks, I'd imagine that the change between oversteer and understeer, e.g. if you were to lift-off mid corner, would be much more dramatic.
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by macgtech » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:36 pm

warpc0il wrote:While the loss of grip might be progressive, not having drive a road car on slicks, I'd imagine that the change between oversteer and understeer, e.g. if you were to lift-off mid corner, would be much more dramatic.
It isn't something I have noticed...unless you hit some dirt/dampness/oil etc in which case as you are going a fair bit quicker, the change is dramatic.

I also can't for a second envisage that getting 'heat' into them will be an issue. Once you have done a lap or so to get rid of the 'skin' they will perform way better than road tyres.
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Re: track day slicks? (javerlin)

Post by Will66 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:09 pm

Indeed, it's the diameter! My bad!
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Re: Track day slick tyres?

Post by Elonexxx » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:16 am

Thread revival!

I've just won, and spoken to the seller and all is agreed, 14 tarmac rally tyres Image

I won't tell you the price, you may cry.

Am I likely to experience any problems with these with regards to not having a cage etc at track days?

Also, is oil starvation a huge problem?

Thanks!
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Re: Track day slick tyres?

Post by macgtech » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:45 pm

They are effectively road legal, so rally cars can drive between stages, so i don;t think you should have any issues.

Oil surge...you won't know unless you have proper logging on your car. You won't 'see' it with a normal aftermarket OP gauge as they are damped far too much. We haven't tested on slicks yet (will do in the next couple of weeks with a bit of luck), so can let you know then.
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Re: Track day slick tyres?

Post by Elonexxx » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:20 pm

That's great to hear, thank you!


Yeah that would be great, I don't want to risk it without knowing

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