Trackday rules.

Equipment that may be needed plus general information on track days.
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NicKD
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Trackday rules.

Post by NicKD »

Just a comment on something that sort of grows but is actually incorrect.

There is no bible of track day rules set down from a governing body. Track day rules are set by the insurance cover that is used on the day. In many instances this is this set by the venue as for many "club" days the day is bought as a package from the venue and public liability cover comes under that of the venue.
Independently insured events come under what the organisers agree with their insurance company.

Therefore there is no arbitrary "Blue Book" helmets must be worn, no ban on suction camera mounts, no insistence on over taking on the left, of for that matter on insistence on having to overtake on one side only.

Obviously common sense, duty of care and also just making it easy comes into it and so there are some pretty common things across track days. The main one is no timing. Timing would require it to come under MSA competition insurance and so require a MSA permit and all the stuff that goes with it, or require it to be independently insured which would bring with it one mighty premium and probably the insistence of complying with most if not all of the MSA requirements anyway.
Other stuff however is very much more open. MSV for instance does not like suction mounts, however it is quite possible for them to be used if the organiser uses an insurance policy that allows for this. Blue Book helmets are not required; some clubs insist on them because that is what its insurance policy states and they may have a reduction in premium because of it, or it maybe that they have not really looked at what they need. Overtaking again is down to the organiser and the track. There are some best practices but there is no absolute reason to say over taking must be on the left, or right. The official Mallory policy used to be over taking on the left apart from in Gerard’s when it was allowed on the right. And so it goes on with most "trackday" rules. There are common sense best practices and prudence, but little if anything is actually mandatory if it was required to be different.
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by HypoThermia »

Those are all fair points and good to be reminded of them. I'll update a few recent posts to reflect that.

Most of the track days that we've been on in the last two years have been organised at MSV venues so we're tending to align to that set of rules. If another venue allows suction mounts then that isn't going to be a problem, but when you're investing in hardware then its going to be according to be the most conservative set of rules that we're aware of.

Speaking personally any times that I've quoted have been taken from video footage reviewed from an armchair after the day is over. I'm not trying to undermine the MSA Insurance requirement for timing, but in the strictest sense of the definition of a timing device this would end up with video cameras being banned and non-MSA insured events.

Cheers Nick - catch up with you at Blyton.

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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by robj20 »

What tends to be the rule on suction cups, i have a proper motorsport one that locks in place and can hold more than the glass typically can?
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by casey »

^^^ Unfortunately, all suction mounts are lumped in the same category. Someone has already tried to use a professional suction mount at a MSV circuit (with a vacuum pump seal that would hold an elephant) and it was not permitted.
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by HypoThermia »

:whathesaid: I've adapted my suction mount system into a fixed mount that can be easily swapped between rx8's.

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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by robj20 »

What about sticky mounts the type that would stick to the dash, also have a few clamp mounts but dont know where i could clamp it to.
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by California Style »

Not trying to be a devils advocate (well OK, but just a bit) , but I am sure the timing rules are there not becuase of people looking at the stop watch / timing device as they drive, but rather to stop them going mad driving to shave off another second, knowing that they are being timed, by whatever method.

If you are just driving for enjoyment (which a track day is meant to be) then not knowing times removes any pressure, or encouragement to "push that little bit harder" to knock another second off, and take you out of your comfort / ability zone.

If people really want to compare performance times or race etc, then I would suggest doing as Casey does, and entering sprint type events, North Weald crash barrier / other car barrier free areas, or even entry level comps such as Track Day Trophy or the Nippon Challenge type events.

I personally like a bit of action and filming, but am not overly keen on the idea of timing and "my Nurburg ring time" ideas, except when in a properly controlled environment, which a normal track day is not.
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by NicKD »

As a TDO I am in no way going to condone timing on track days, but what is said above is a good view.

It is impossible to prevent timing, a passenger in a car can be running their watch, even if they were banned, someone could be counting one elephant, two elephant!

What timing can become part of is competition and without writing an essay that requires a whole different set of rules, mainly called the Blue Book.

I read quite often in forum threads posts from drivers that moan that they were not given sufficient room by faster cars over taking them, then later on post their lap times to show how fast they went and how slow people got in their way.

What trackdays want are drivers that don't take silly risks and risk other drivers and cars, slow down when needed and drive responsibly. If they happen to have had a camera running in their car from which they can later extract data that tells them how fast they went around and that as the day went on they improved due to greater experience, then I don't know anyone who is going to get upset by that.
Last edited by NicKD on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:47 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by NicKD »

The reason suction mounts are not liked is that glass can break, body panels can deform and even things like vinyl wraps or stickers can lift and cause them to fall off.
Now the argument everyone uses is that it will never happen to theirs, which is the argument used by most people for most things just before it all goes wrong. Circuits have seen most types of crash and the results and so they take appropriate generic action. Also I believe the FIA insist on fixed mounts with a tether for all competition situations.
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by robj20 »

Any ideas where i can attach a mount then, either a sticky one or a bar clamp for bars up to about 1.5".
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by casey »

^^If you've got a lightweight and small camera (I have a Novus Eye and keyfob solid state cameras) then using some 3M "dual lock" (very tough "velco" type mounting) should be adequate for mounting anywhere in the car. If you are using a heavier CamCorder then Ian has adapted a spare RX-8 "ski-hatch" with a permanent mount (adapted his "banned" vacuum mount) to point the camera through the front window - this gives a very good aspect, showing driver's hands on the wheel and even revs on the dial too. Ian kindly then lends other people the ski hatch with camera mounted, it taking seconds to swap ski hatches over.
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by casey »

NicKD wrote:What trackdays want are drivers that don't take silly risks and risk other drivers and cars, slow down when needed and drive responsibly. If they happen to have had a camera running in their car from which they can later extract data that tells them how fast they went around and that as the day went on they improved due to greater experience, then I don't know anyone who is going to get upset by that.
Nick, a good summing up, and I'm in total agreement with that.
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by robj20 »

I have a GoPro HD Hero, use it on my mountain bike mainly.
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by madder »

hows the ski hatch come out as i have a spare hatch i want to mod as i assume i cant use my hague mount at blyton on saturday
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Re: Trackday rules.

Post by casey »

^^^ Tom, just use the ignition key to unlock it, then there is a release clip at the top, then pull forward into cabin. ANY ignition key seems to work BTW, useful when swapping between cars!
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