Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Equipment that may be needed plus general information on track days.
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Re: Car Activity and Track day driving techniques - Q&A

Post by AtomicRex »

Without wishing to extend this further...Im not advocating the need to throw the fun in the bin! All I am personally after is to make sure people are safe. That way you can enjoy yourself without worrying. Ive taught people to climb....and used to spend time teaching knots and how to make sure you are harnessed in correctly....I look at this in the same way.

When running the bike track days, I would find people running around on road pressures, on a wet day thats fine, but on a dry day.....not a good plan! You would find their hot pressures up at 60psi!!!

As said I wasn't looking to make a big thing about this....and I for one am more than happy to spend time with anyone that wants to learn whilst they are hanking around the circuit having a giggle.....but I think if you get the boring basics out of the way it means you can put them to the back of your mind and get on with what you've gone to the track for.
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Re: Car Activity and Track day driving techniques - Q&A

Post by brads rex »

All very worthy and laudable, but the fact is with the competitive nature of the human species after a few track days a lot of people will want to improve their driving abilities and or lap times, why else do we recommend signing up for tuition, if not to improve our abilties ?.

If talk of tyres and pressures is not for this thread what is ?, is it acceptable to talk of heel and toe techniques or the advantage of left foot braking, if the point of this thread is just to say "turn up and have a good time" a don't see the point in having a thread on "driving techniques".

Whilst i would agree anyone doing their first trackday will have a superb day spent in good company, it will soon get boring if you do the same thing on every track day and learn nothing.
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Re: Car Activity and Track day driving techniques - Q&A

Post by Zarterone »

Yes I agree with the above,

Once you have done your first trackday, you get hooked, and then you want to learn how to improve your driving and your car(that's when it gets expensive :lol: )

but I'm trying to get people to go for the first time, a lot of us (from this club) go to the same monthly meets etc and also do track days together and slowly we are converting the wary people in this club to do track days, we have already got loads to do North Weald Activity driving days.

for the December Brands track day which has been moved to January, we (I say we the members of the Essex/Barnet meet) have encourage/persuaded some new track Virgins to come along.

Hopefully in the long term the club ,can get enough members to stage our own track days, and other driving activities like circuit/sprint driving/racing (which has been raised elsewhere on this forum)
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Re: Car Activity and Track day driving techniques - Q&A

Post by Zarterone »

Slightly off topic but Hein Gericke have got a Helmet sale on at the moment

Most are very expensive, but the are a few under £100 if interested

http://www.hein-gericke.at/0/uk_bk/101125/
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Re: Car Activity and Track day driving techniques - Q&A

Post by HypoThermia »

Thanks for the comments everyone. I created the thread with the intention of covering a lot of ground from "my first track day" through to those who are seasoned regulars, and interested in the technical detail as well. I'm not expecting a subject to be off limits, but some/most will have to have a "level" attached.

People shouldn't be discouraged by the level of conversation on the tyres, and any question is welcome from "what do I bring" to "how can I try different lines in a corner" can be asked :D

These things get lost in the individual track threads, hence this break out. Maintenance of the summary is a low key affair.

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Re: Car Activity and Track day driving techniques - Q&A

Post by AtomicRex »

Trying different lines is totally crucial.

The article you referred to explained how to drive your archetypal corner. I always advocate late apexes at the start of learning to drive a circuit.

There are a number of reasons:
It opens up the corner (great if the next part of the bend is a hairpin)
It allows you to brake later
You are able to straighten the car earlier and so get on the power earlier.
Obviously you are going to compromise turn in speed, but the old adage "Slow in Fast out" works wonders for keeping you on the black stuff!

Once you have established you can stay on the track, you can start moving the turn-in point back a little....and see if this allows you to carry more speed through the bend.

You cant do this the other way round, as early turn in points will have you running off the track and taking to the grass!!

If you get the chance investigate what levels of grip you have off the ideal line, you will be amazed how some places will be very slippery!! Best to find this out under your control rather than moving over to let a car go by and having a twitch moment!

If you do get a twitchy moment..dont tense up!!

Keep your elbows down....and that will help :)
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Re: Car Activity and Track day driving techniques - Q&A

Post by Zarterone »

And change you pants once your returned to the pits :lol: :lol:
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by HypoThermia »

I've widened the title slightly so it's not just about driving technique 8)

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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by MetA »

I'm afraid I have to add a serious comment here.

Trackdays ARE DANGEROUS activities.
Even with the best planning there is a risk as you are sharing track with others.
So unless you know them - we do some of these limited sessions for clubs at KNockhill - then the outcomes are NOT only in your hands.

Equally there are known risks with those who do trackdays when leaving circuits.

Ive' been reprimanded for posting a serious reminder that EVEN AN EXPERT can fall foul of the difficulty in compeltely "swtiching off".

I'm afraid the wording seems to want this thread to be a PROMOTION of the activity only and not have any of the serious consequences and lessons widely shared on the day at good trackday events.

I disagree and as the post was removed without debate I feel only fair to post this heads up to remind all involved that we ALL have a responsibility to ensure the SAFETY of our friends and fellow club members. I dont' want it on MY conscience that any member might fall foul of the many risks that are present and accepted on trackdays without prior knowledge of them and so I will no longer take part in this discussion.

Anyone who wants to share experiences and balanced open honest comment about Nurburgring, Knockhill, Doune, Kames, Boyndie, Golspie, Alford and Fintaray I'm happy to in an open manner at another forum where I'm a mod - www.ultimatecarpage.com

I cannot in all honesty contribute here if we are going to hide from the downsides in the hope of attracting new folks to try trackdays.
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by HypoThermia »

I removed the posts in question after several complaints that it was inappropriate to display a video of a serious accident in which a death occurred. As I was at work I was unable to view the content of either video posted, or give time to edit a post down to retain the beneficial information.

The moderation policy here is clear - if the content is suspect then it is taken off the public forum for review and comment within the club moderation community.

I sent you a PM on the matter and the discussion had not been concluded. Since you have felt it necessary to post up without allowing that process to complete, and without an acknowledgement of why the posts were withdrawn in the first place, I am now forced to make this public statement for the benefit of those who cannot see the original posts. Having reviewed the posts I would have edited out the video as well as some comments and restored the rest of the material, however the position taken in the above post has now made that position more difficult to justify.

To make it clear - the material objected to was that of a video of a serious accident in which a death occurred, and not any other content.


As a personal note I am happy for track safety to be raised as an issue. It is an essential part of understanding what the day involves and needs a mature approach. I do not recognise it as a "promotion only" thread, but an informative Q&A (as set out in the second post) so that anyone can find out more about what is involved. I feel you are disagreeing with a straw man position.

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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by MetA »

You made NO COMMENT of a process Ian.

Transparency clearly lacking in this complete process and the other issues I've raised with the new comittee and had no responses on.

Especially given your coment above.

In your PM to me you stated "How you can consider this appropriate discussion within the context of encouraging track day novices is beyond me"

As my text made it clear the comment was appropriate for definite but all was deleted and NO FEEDBACK that it was under consideration or review or anything you have suggested in that post. The video I agree given others have also pointed out the need for more consistent NSFW on any clips.

Just clearing the air on this as I won't be in this thread as for the second time there's an agenda present I don't find helpful given the wider aspec of trackdays. SO best I leave.
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by HypoThermia »

*sigh* For the record I also stated "from mobile phone", and "more to follow if needed". NSFW is not the issue. I believe you've been on the forum long enough to know what happens with moderation, my apologies for making that assumption.

This discussion is starting to spoil the thread, and I consider the matter closed. My apologies to everyone who has made such a positive contribution to the thread so far. Lets get back to what is important - the love of learning about what is involved in track days.

Thank you.

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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by Will66 »

Cars going fast is inherently dangerous. However it's far safer on a trackday than on the public road, and that's the point of them. If you are unfortunate enough to have a crash at speed it's not going to be good however far better get stuck in some kitty litter or a tyre wall on a track than through a bus-stop crowded with school children or a post office pension queue.

There are risks involved but if you want to explore the performance of your RX8 in a far more safe environment than the public road then they're a good idea.
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by Shifty_uk »

Has been a good read through this topic to say the least :D

Anyway theres plenty of empty roads around mine, never ever been a issue, dont need a track day. :D
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by Zarterone »

A least one thing you can guarantee at a track day, you wont get a copper jump at at you with his speed gun
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by Will66 »

:whathesaid:

And given that my license is a strong cough away from a three month ban that's a very good thing!
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by Shifty_uk »

Yep true :D but not been caught yet neither has anyone who been to nott's meets and we've hit some very nice speeds. Each to there own, my opinion will nto change, no need for me to spend my money on something i can do anywhere when i want to :D
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by Mazda Rotary Parts »

Rather than this thread turning into a thread that's trying to scare people off track days it may be an idea to close this thread and start another to explain the benefits of learning about the tremendous capabilities of the wonderful RX-8,

Even if you feel you can drive your car "super fast" out on the road and really know your RX-8, seriously these capabilities can only be fully learnt out on the track which in turn may help you to be in control of the car out on the road where without full experience of what the RX-8 can and can't do it just may save an accident occurring due to understanding how your car will react in an extreme situation.

Touched upon this in an earlier post explaining about the owner who goes very slow compared to many others but still enjoys his trackdays.

The point being that ANY vehicle only goes as fast as you make it go, this is why I strongly advocate to only go as fast as you feel comfortable with the car as speed will potentially build with confidence if you want it to,

I have said many times to people who have said to me motor racing is dangerous that I personally consider it in the main to be safer than out on the road, why, because in theory out on the track "we are all going the same direction"

Lets also not forget that the Track days between the RX8OC and MRC are designed not to be all about the track but are also designed to be social events as well, this way it is hoped that people will come along and see what track days are all about with like minded people without even needing to go out on track with your car if you don't want to.

Hope this helps
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by Zarterone »

Yes Clive I agree about the social aspect to track days, like I said in a earlier post, the reason I first went to my first track day was because of members/friends, and its the reason I still go :D
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by Will66 »

:whathesaid:

I have said it to a few people but it's worth reiterating. The RX8 is a brilliant car for a trackday! It's a very honest car with linear responses, good grip and strong brakes, its inherent balance means its very friendly. It has enough power on a track but not so much that cornering becomes an exercise in keeping away from the power band to prevent uncontrollable wheelspin, it's also friendly in the wet.

If you've got an 8 and you've ever wondered if you're exploiting it fully then having a go on a trackday is a great idea. Especially if you come along to one of casey's RX8OC/MRC trackdays, they're run by Mazda on Track who do good trackdays and it's fun getting out on track with a bunch of other RX8s. We share hints and tips, take photos of each other, even help each other change brake pads, tyres etc. People have been known to passenger each other around as well! It's a fun day out and you may even learn something.
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by casey »

MetA is right to point out safety at a trackday is an important consideration. To reassure those people who might be thinking of doing their first ever trackday I would make these points;

1. There is a comprehensive, and compulsory safety briefing at the start of all trackdays. You HAVE to attend that breifing to get a wristband that allows you on track. I produce a pre-trackday briefing pack too (for the events I attend), to ensure everyone has all the key information to hand a week or so before the event.
2. If anyone needs any safety advice at the days I attend, just ask me, or any of the experienced drivers in the RX group. We are more than happy to advise. I remember my first ever trackday and know the mix of excitement and "trepidation" that will be present when doing something like this for the first time! Any of the more experienced RX trackies will be very happy to take newcomers out as passengers to show the lines around the track, and point out any "tricky" spots. Equally, I would THOROUGHLY recommend that newcomers book a tuition session. This will really help you to get the best from the day.
3. The trackdays I "promote" on here (and the MRC), are organised in conjunction with Mazda on Track. This means we normally get a lot of MX-5's, RX-8's and RX-7's, the vast majority of whom are trackday regulars, and members of clubs. This, in my view, minimises (but can't eliminate) the risks of a "rogue" individual driver who might not be driving "appropriately".
4. The track is being observed at ALL TIMES by the trackday operators (TDO). Should there be any "rogue" drivers (we had a BMW driver at Oulton recently) then, in my experience, these drivers are very quickly "Black Flagged" and given a stern talking to. If the driving standard of anyone on track is below standard, the TDO will ban the driver from driving for the rest of the day.
5. My experience of the drivers on MoT organised Trackdays has been that the standard is very high. However, as a precaution, I would advise first timers to AVOID the very first 45 minutes on track. During this period the more experienced drivers can go out and spot any potential "rogues" cars/drivers and flag these to the TDO and the rest of the group.
6. As has been already said, always drive at the speed YOU feel comfortable at. Let faster cars past and concentrate on developing your driving on track at your pace.
7. The "8" is a very well balanced and forgiving car. If your driving inputs to the steering and brakes are smooth, you BUILD UP to a speed you are comfortable at during the day, keep an eye on your mirror, take heed of the overtaking rules (which will be covered in the briefing), then there won't be a problem.
Last edited by casey on Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by MetA »

^^^^ Well written points summarising the issues from the type of trackdays you're supporting casey.
Pretty much spot on the lines MSCC have on their trackdays at Knockhill :)
Assuming the same casey, woudl you want to add to #2 or #5 that for first timers that more experienced drivers are always willing to take out new folks when asked to show them lines and potential hazards to be wary of .. ( line through ther chicane and throttle off on Duffus Dip at Knockhill are our problem ones :) )
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by casey »

^^^ Thanks Peter. Good points, I have edited accordingly :thumright:
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by brads rex »

Shifty_uk wrote:Yep true :D but not been caught yet neither has anyone who been to nott's meets and we've hit some very nice speeds. Each to there own, my opinion will nto change, no need for me to spend my money on something i can do anywhere when i want to :D
Iam not sure if this is a genuine post or designed to elicit a reaction, but ill bite :lol: .

*Reason number one for doing a track day*

YOU WON'T FIND A CHILD ON A BICYCLE AROUND A BLIND BEND [-X :roll: :lol: .

*reason number two*

see above. :P
Last edited by brads rex on Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Will66
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Re: Car Activity and Track day - Q&A

Post by Will66 »

:whathesaid:

I took that to be a humorous post however if not it's worrying, particularly since it's a committee member.
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