Nürburgring Weekend 19 - 22 Sept

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NicKD
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Post by NicKD » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:11 pm

Aghhh, you can't edit posts!

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Post by CitizenFish » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:01 pm

OK, my ferry is booked. I'm going Thursday 7am returning Sunday 5pm
See you all there Fri/Sat. We are going to do the MTB ride round the track as well.
Say hello, I'll be in the Copper Red Nemisis taking it well easy! Wave as you pass.
Dave
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Post by jang » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:44 am

Just had my exhaust noise level measured at 88dba @6000rpm peak @1m.
Not bad for the howl it makes at full chat :lol: :lol: 8)
So i'm OK for the ring 8) 8)
I am going via the Friday early doors ferry which I am going to book tonight unless somebody comes up with an alternative :?
Peter, how are we doing on the hotel booking Is all OK?
NIKD/Al how do you book the 2 hour instruction. Is it best to book now or on arrival?

Jan
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace. Jimi Hendrix
His was RX8 Velocity Red, RX8 Galaxy Grey - Gone but not forgotten
Now Ford Focus RS 300BHP 163 MPH Frozen White Lux pack 1 and USB/BT Yes it has front wheel drive!
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Post by jang » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:00 pm

Right then:
NORFOLK LINE - DOVER TO DUNKERQUE FRIDAY 19th 6AM
RETURN MONDAY 12PM

£48 RETURN

who's OK with this 8)

Booking tomorrow come what may

Jan
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace. Jimi Hendrix
His was RX8 Velocity Red, RX8 Galaxy Grey - Gone but not forgotten
Now Ford Focus RS 300BHP 163 MPH Frozen White Lux pack 1 and USB/BT Yes it has front wheel drive!
Hers MX5 Copper Red Mica Roadster coupe. Lowered, EBC Greenstuff brakes

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Post by NicKD » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:43 pm

Gentlemen, and Ladies if any, I am still waiting for a response from Euro Tunnel, their attitude is starting to aggravate me. As yet, although I can get the price I said for me, they will not give me an answer if I can get this for other people.
This is how stupid it is. On the phone they say they can't help as they can't book for more than 5 cars, via email they say they only give discount for 15 or more cars. Also via email I have asked to get the deal I can get, but the answer is that it only applies to my bookings, so I would have to be in each and every car, obviously that would be difficult, so after 6 emails I am eventually directed to their trade services who I have to fax, which I did on Friday, but no response as yet. Its crap, I am still trying but they obviously are doing so well after loosing millions for years that they don't need customers!
I will still keep trying as it's a pants attitude from them

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Post by jang » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:24 am

Dave I have taken on board what you said and I have now booked the following Norfolk line ferry Dover to Dunkirk 6 am Friday 19th September returning 14.00 pm Monday 22nd September.
Anybody wishing to travel with me is quite welcome 8) 8). It should be about 4 hours from Dunkirk to the Ring depending on the traffic 8) .

Peter, are we OK with the Hotel?

NickD how do I book the driving instruction as I would like to do this on Friday. Do I need to bring a helmet for it and what is the cost.

Jang - Ferry booked
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace. Jimi Hendrix
His was RX8 Velocity Red, RX8 Galaxy Grey - Gone but not forgotten
Now Ford Focus RS 300BHP 163 MPH Frozen White Lux pack 1 and USB/BT Yes it has front wheel drive!
Hers MX5 Copper Red Mica Roadster coupe. Lowered, EBC Greenstuff brakes

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Post by Screamer » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:01 am

Jang - I'll take the ferry too. £48 is a lot less than £70 (at best) on the tunnel, and like Dave says, it's as good a time as any to get a break. Are you booking and we pay you, or should we go and pay directly ourselves?

How long should the crossing take?
Mike

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Post by Screamer » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:07 am

Is there really a 95db limit at the Ring? I hit exactly that at my last trackday at Oulton... Surely they allow louder stuff than my car on?
Mike

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GONE: Brill Black PZ: Sens; Flaps; PDA+TomTom; Aux-in; Strakes; Chrome handles.

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Post by jang » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:30 pm

Mike, just pay direct. I used aferry.to online and its £50.00 now but its still a bargain.

Jan

Well i'm going even if you're not :P
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace. Jimi Hendrix
His was RX8 Velocity Red, RX8 Galaxy Grey - Gone but not forgotten
Now Ford Focus RS 300BHP 163 MPH Frozen White Lux pack 1 and USB/BT Yes it has front wheel drive!
Hers MX5 Copper Red Mica Roadster coupe. Lowered, EBC Greenstuff brakes

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Post by MetA » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:55 pm

I had booked 3 apartments ( plus a maybe for Tim/Linda ) and am awaiting response.

Nick, are you wanting a room/apartment and how many ?
The apartments comfortably sleep 2 and can readily accomodate 4.
I reckon the "sleeping arrangements" at this time are ....
me and Dave ( MetA and Druck )
Jan + Maz
Mike +1 ( Screamer +1 )
...Tim + Linda ( Newspeedie + Linda rich --- provisional)

So if we want to "get close" then we can all take another 2 people in each apartment .... or negotiate for more rooms/apartments. I'm waiting on response from Eddy on other availability.
RX-8 PZ. Grey, EBC discs/yellow pads all round, Kumho V70A race rubber for serious playtimes .... Alpine A610, Blue .... Matra Bagheera 'S', Black .... 'X', Orange .... Bandit motorbike, Black ..... share in OMS Z1100 Hillclimb
"To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman" - Jacques Anquetil, 5 times winner Tour De France cycle race

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Post by Screamer » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:46 pm

Thanks jang - will do.

Before I go ahead, should I add their travel insurance (total rises to £75 ish), or is there a better/cheaper provider that you're using?

MetA: if you don't mind me asking, how much are we looking at for accomodation per night (same place for 3 nights, presumably)?
Mike

Imola Red BMW Z4 M Coupe: 19" CSL's + Goodyears; Strutbrace; Nav; 10 spkrs; MP3CD; iPod+Aux; Btooth; Heated seats; Cruise; Nappa; Sens; Flaps. Pics/info here.
GONE: Brill Black PZ: Sens; Flaps; PDA+TomTom; Aux-in; Strakes; Chrome handles.

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Post by MetA » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:48 pm

35-45 euros per person per night including breakfast.

Who decided on this weekend ?
Looks like everyone's going have to practise their Glasgow accents to avoid being "chibbed" :)

What am I on about ?
There's a Superleague Formula race on the GP circuit.
A race series with cars in football team colours/sponsorship .... and guess who has a team .... http://www.superleagueformula.com/super ... Rangers-FC .... phew, glad G-man can't make it or we'd have had trouble :)
RX-8 PZ. Grey, EBC discs/yellow pads all round, Kumho V70A race rubber for serious playtimes .... Alpine A610, Blue .... Matra Bagheera 'S', Black .... 'X', Orange .... Bandit motorbike, Black ..... share in OMS Z1100 Hillclimb
"To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman" - Jacques Anquetil, 5 times winner Tour De France cycle race

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Post by NicKD » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:58 pm

jang wrote:NickD how do I book the driving instruction as I would like to do this on Friday. Do I need to bring a helmet for it and what is the cost.
Sorry for the delay, I have had day time work getting in the way.

To book tuition you need to contact RSR

http://rsrnurburg.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=29

It is not cheap, however this could be the best tuition you ever book as you will get guidance well beyond that the a regular TF driver could give and in terms of the consequences if you get things wrong, then it is priceless if you are wanting to get the best from the track.

Prices are Euro 250 for the two hours in your own car or Euro 575 to use one of RSR's race Alfa's

If you book and you mention either Al Clark at Mazda on Track or the North Loop discount you should be able to claim a 10% discount. If not, please don't book until you have had a word with me.


Why I would recommend this.
I won’t start telling anyone how to drive and in particular how to drive the Nordschleife, there is much on the web about the dangers. What I will do is just relate some of my first experiences of the place.
I had heard it was a very long track on and when I went out for my first lap I was very surprised that it felt over quite quickly even though it was probably 15 minutes.
On my fifth lap (5th lap problems are quite common I am told) I had a heavy trip across the kerbs at Adenauer Forst because I took too much speed into a corner I did no know.
It took ne over 20 laps to remember the tight bend of Bergwerk which is half way around the track was even there. So that is 4 hours of being on track to remember a bend and a further 60 + laps to feel confident that I knew the lines and dangers.
If you can afford professional help with this, it will make the time there all the better.

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Post by NicKD » Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:02 pm

MetA wrote:35-45 euros per person per night including breakfast.

Who decided on this weekend ?
Looks like everyone's going have to practise their Glasgow accents to avoid being "chibbed" :)

What am I on about ?
There's a Superleague Formula race on the GP circuit.
A race series with cars in football team colours/sponsorship .... and guess who has a team .... http://www.superleagueformula.com/super ... Rangers-FC .... phew, glad G-man can't make it or we'd have had trouble :)
I work in Corby, that will be no problem at all.

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Post by MetA » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:46 pm

Links posted before, but Mike wanted a PM and made sense to copy here :)

Great site for all 'Ring things
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/

Ben's summary on costs ( and repairs! )
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/prices.html

Places to stay
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/where_to_stay.html
We're booked in the apartments at Hotel An Der Nordschleife
http://www.hotel-an-der-nordschleife.de/
Attachments
17062008200.jpg
The Breidscheid track entrance on the left, the apartment facing on the right.
17062008200.jpg (61.83 KiB) Viewed 834 times
RX-8 PZ. Grey, EBC discs/yellow pads all round, Kumho V70A race rubber for serious playtimes .... Alpine A610, Blue .... Matra Bagheera 'S', Black .... 'X', Orange .... Bandit motorbike, Black ..... share in OMS Z1100 Hillclimb
"To prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman" - Jacques Anquetil, 5 times winner Tour De France cycle race

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Post by NicKD » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:40 am

I think you will find the ring petrol cost is a little opimistic in the thread. £90 will get you about 12 to 15 laps.

Also you used to be able to get a half year season ticket, but they have been stopped. I am told however it depends who you ask. Unfortunately I don't know who to ask. In my view they are one of the diggest contributions to safety as they take the pressure off any aborted laps.

If anyone did think they would get use from one, it's around 60 laps before they pay back then they can lift the picture from your driving licence.

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Post by Screamer » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:32 am

Thanks Peter!

Haven't had a response on the travel insurance, but a moneysupermarket search brings up a number of providers that'll provide cover for £2.50 ish (or £10 for their top-of-the-range cover)! So i'll leave that for later, rather than paying the ferry site's £25. Here's the site: https://cheaper.travelinsurance.co.uk/
Mike

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GONE: Brill Black PZ: Sens; Flaps; PDA+TomTom; Aux-in; Strakes; Chrome handles.

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Post by NicKD » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:10 am

Gentlemen,

UK insurance generally excludes the Nurburgring, you will find specific exclusions in your policy as well as European breakdown cover often excluded this as well. I know the AA and Green Flag exclude this.

You can get a full years cover from ADAC which will cover you for the ring and save the Euro 180 odd charge if you need to be recovered.
It costs about £80 and will cover you in the UK as well.

Their website does have some English but is not the easiest to use. Basically you have to print out the sheet, put a post-it note over the bank details part as it is only for German Banks and put your predit card details on in. You letters will come in German too. However the cover is very good.

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Post by jang » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:18 am

Will the Mazda assist not cover us?

Jan
When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace. Jimi Hendrix
His was RX8 Velocity Red, RX8 Galaxy Grey - Gone but not forgotten
Now Ford Focus RS 300BHP 163 MPH Frozen White Lux pack 1 and USB/BT Yes it has front wheel drive!
Hers MX5 Copper Red Mica Roadster coupe. Lowered, EBC Greenstuff brakes

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Post by Screamer » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:49 am

Doubt it - that's just an umbrella name for companies contracted to Mazda across europe who can come and pick you up etc... I'd guess that Mazda's T&C's for the service exclude everything that any of their providers exclude, and given that Green Flag/AA/etc exclude the 'ring, i'd imagine Mazda's providers do the same. I have a similar service with BMW - can't see that being any different.

Nick: a full year's cover seems excessive... Can we not get cover just for this trip a lot cheaper than £80?
Mike

Imola Red BMW Z4 M Coupe: 19" CSL's + Goodyears; Strutbrace; Nav; 10 spkrs; MP3CD; iPod+Aux; Btooth; Heated seats; Cruise; Nappa; Sens; Flaps. Pics/info here.
GONE: Brill Black PZ: Sens; Flaps; PDA+TomTom; Aux-in; Strakes; Chrome handles.

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Post by NicKD » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:43 am

Screamer wrote:Doubt it - that's just an umbrella name for companies contracted to Mazda across europe who can come and pick you up etc... I'd guess that Mazda's T&C's for the service exclude everything that any of their providers exclude, and given that Green Flag/AA/etc exclude the 'ring, i'd imagine Mazda's providers do the same. I have a similar service with BMW - can't see that being any different.

Nick: a full year's cover seems excessive... Can we not get cover just for this trip a lot cheaper than £80?
To be honest I don't know the answer to that. ADAC used to have the contract for covering the Ring but this year Bonguard have it.
These companies are basically like the AA, if you have a problem they will come and pick you up as a member, just like the AA would at the side of the A5. If you don't have cover then you are charged a flat fee by them. So they sell cover by the year like the AA. The upside is that it replaces the AA in the UK, basically if you have a problem they sub the work to others just like Green Flag do. So if you have no break down cover in the UK the ADAC can cover you Europe Wide just like anyone else. However to get specific weekly deals I very much suspect you have to have significant buying power with the ability to put many hundreds of customers if not many thousands their way.
The problem would be that I still expect they would want £50 for a week if not more as the chances of breaking down or crashing are obviously going to be far greater with the additional stresses you place on your car than popping to the shops, so I can't see them doing a cheep Ring policy as it would be high financial risk for them.

Just so you know however, the Mazda dealer in Adenau is a hero, but you do need to take sensible precautions before you start.

OK, at the risk of teaching to suck eggs.

Track work is not necessarily bad for a car at all, however it will expose any weaknesses that are there. If you are giving it beans then your engine is going to spend 10 minutes in the top quarter of its rev range and working hard. To put this into perspective, when you are driving home across Belgium at speeds you would normally think are quite fast for the road you will then realise just what an easy time your engine is having compared to the last 72 hours.

So check these things before you do.
Coolant hoses. Your cars should all be relatively new so hoses should not be perished but if there is a problem with one, be sure that the Nordschleife will find it out.
Check drive belts. Any worn ones will be liable to break. A combination of under bonnet temps and the fact that for 10 minutes or more if you do consecutive laps it is going to be turning at 7,000+ RPM
It is well worth having a spare, even if it is shared between all of you as I have seen many track days ended due to simple problems. MoT carry spares for MX5's but not for RX8's

Brake Pads. You don't actually have to brake that much, (depending upon how fast your car is) but if your pads are beyond half worn then I very strongly recommend bringing a spare set. Again there is nothing worse than seeing someone’s day end early due to worn brakes
Image

Tyres, you are obviously going to get some tyre wear, you don't come to the worlds greatest race track and expect to get 30,000 miles from a set. Tyre wear will depend very much on your driving style and number of laps. You should easily be able to do a weekend on a decent set of tyres and still be legal to drive home. However, obviously if you are just of the tread wear indicators, you are going to have some issues with legality.

The other thing to consider is rain. It is my experience that budget performance tyres have OK grip in the dry but it is the wet that shows up how good a tyre is. If anyone is on cut slicks or is going to get some, I recommend R888 which actually have very good wet grip and allow wonderful drifting :P
Image

Bring some essential tools and anything else you might need. You can get a VW, Porsche or BMW fixed just about anywhere, in fact in some very surprising places, but other makes are rare. There is a Mazda Dealer in Adenau but other than that the chances of finding a rotary part or hose or brake pad is going to be very slim.

Final thing, I am always ripping exhaust mounting rubbers. The heat off the exhaust at continual high revs slogging up the hill combined with the bouncing in the Karussell can tear them. I am actually going to wrap coat hanger wire around mine to support them. Again, things like this can be hard to find, and even though the Mazda dealer is a hero, Euro27 for 2 rubber hangers was too much.

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Post by Screamer » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:08 pm

Thanks Nick. So the £80 is for recovery only..? Any advice re insurance on the 'ring? I'd be interested if it were cheap enough...
Mike

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GONE: Brill Black PZ: Sens; Flaps; PDA+TomTom; Aux-in; Strakes; Chrome handles.

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Post by NicKD » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:48 pm

It is my understanding that your road insurance will be invalid on the Ring, just as it is on track in the UK.
There is talk that policies that specifically mention the Nurburgring have paid up having argued that the car was on the Nordschleife. However even if correct you are going to have an argument.
Many policies now have the words "excluding any unrestricted toll roads"
The only standard policies that I know cover this are German car insurance policies, meaning those resident in Germany.

I am not trying to scare anyone, I have no insurance for the Ring either, it is back to those Big Boys rules again, but please be aware that here are potential dangers. The biggest one will be hitting the Armco, even very gently, will involve a charge. Costs go up from there the more damage that is done.
The best advice is to keep it sane, enjoy the bits you know and take car on those you don't. It is written that you should always treat it as a fast A road. In my experience the biggest problem is going to happen by not knowing where you are on the track, so again, drive the bit you know, take great care on the ones you don't.

All this seems very heavy, you should be aware of these things but what is often not said is that it is one of the most addictive bits of tarmac anywhere in the world. We call it Ring Worm, and if you get infected you accept all of these risks for the shear thrill it gives you.

As for insurance you could try

http://www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk/

Also bring a crash helmet. It is not compulsory to wear one at all, but you are very unlikely to get a PX lap with anyone if you don't have one. It is very much an unwritten rule.

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Post by Screamer » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:36 pm

Right... i've compiled some info etc that i'll post below. Hopefully we can append our names under each heading when we've paid for that service, so we've got 1 big post of info, prices and names.

Ferry
Info:
Dover - Dunkerque @ 6am 19/09
Dunkerque - Dover @ 2:01pm 22/09
Booking:
http://www.aferry.to or http://www.norfolkline.com (direct)
Booked:
jang - http://www.aferry.to - £48
Screamer - http://www.norfolkline.com - £50 - 04/09 (http://www.aferry.to wanted £73)

Travel Insurance
Info:
Booking:
http://cheaper.travelinsurance.co.uk or compare at http://www.moneysupermarket.com/travelinsurance/
Booked:

'Ring Recovery
Info: ADAC
Booking: €180 recovery if not paying for ADAC's cover - http://www.adac.de/mitgliedschaft_leist ... efault.asp - £80 full year's cover (covers UK as well)
Booked:

'Ring Insurance
Info:
Booking: http://www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk or http://www.moris.co.uk or http://www.dayinsure.com
Booked:

Accommodation
Info: http://www.hotel-an-der-nordschleife.de
Booking: MetA, €35-45/night/person
Booked:
Mike

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GONE: Brill Black PZ: Sens; Flaps; PDA+TomTom; Aux-in; Strakes; Chrome handles.

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Post by Screamer » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:50 pm

Ferry
Info:
Dover - Dunkerque @ 6am 19/09
Dunkerque - Dover @ 2:01pm 22/09
Arrival at port required 45mins before scheduled departure
Booking:
http://www.aferry.to or http://www.norfolkline.com (direct)
Booked:
jang - http://www.aferry.to - £48
Screamer - http://www.norfolkline.com - £50 - 04/09 (http://www.aferry.to wanted £73)

Travel Insurance
Info:
Booking:
http://cheaper.travelinsurance.co.uk or compare at http://www.moneysupermarket.com/travelinsurance/
Booked:

'Ring Recovery
Info:
ADAC
Booking:
http://www.adac.de/mitgliedschaft_leist ... efault.asp
£80 full year's cover (covers UK as well)
€180 recovery if not paying for ADAC's cover
Booked:

'Ring Insurance
Info:
Booking:
http://www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk or http://www.moris.co.uk or http://www.dayinsure.com
Booked:

Accommodation
Info:
http://www.hotel-an-der-nordschleife.de
Booking:
MetA, €35-45/night/person
Booked:

Need To Do
- Adjust lights or use light stickers
- GB sticker (unless car has numberplates with blue euro box)
- Get reflective jacket - 80's disco cool, and required for avoiding fines from the French police. Shouldn't be enforced until 01/10, but reports of fines already being issued.

Need To Take
- License (both parts)
- Insurance w/document(s) indicating cover in Europe
- Car registration document
- Passport
- Crash helmet
- Pad & pen
- Details for sat nav (if applicable): Dover port; hotel; ring entrance; Dunkerque port
Mike

Imola Red BMW Z4 M Coupe: 19" CSL's + Goodyears; Strutbrace; Nav; 10 spkrs; MP3CD; iPod+Aux; Btooth; Heated seats; Cruise; Nappa; Sens; Flaps. Pics/info here.
GONE: Brill Black PZ: Sens; Flaps; PDA+TomTom; Aux-in; Strakes; Chrome handles.

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