So what do we think?

Any form of normally aspirated power mods.
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So what do we think?

Post by 350matt » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:14 pm

https://www.vortexexhaust.com/exhaust-technology/

I'm inclined to think this may have some merit

your thoughts gents?
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by PeteH » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:38 pm

Another bolt on mod that will yield 20bhp on the RX-8. Great. You go first......!

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Re: So what do we think?

Post by Essex2Visuvesi » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:27 pm

These exhausts were used on the Wheeler Dealers Gardiner Douglas AC Cobra
As it was never dyno'd I guess we will never know if it there were any improvements to the power delivery
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by Delanor » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:45 pm

If the legendary car salesman "The Brewer" :clint: :rofl: has been involved with one its a good enough reason not to bother!

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Re: So what do we think?

Post by wiggles » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:04 pm

PeteH wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:38 pm
Another bolt on mod that will yield 20bhp on the RX-8. Great. You go first......!
But Pete it says "Importantly, there are NO negative effects at all" ;) not sure if they include your bank balance in that mind
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by warpc0il » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:44 pm

We ought to ask Aston to go and check them out, as they're only round the corner from his place

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Re: So what do we think?

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:51 pm

I'm tempted to get in touch with them about the dyno day up at RR... If I can get my car up there for a pair of back to back runs - one with a gizmo and one without - it could be interesting...

I am, currently, however in the camp that calls snakeoil on it
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by Vian » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Makes you wonder why anyone bothers with spending all that time and effort developing and tuning an engine these days...
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by PeteH » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:20 pm

Also makes you wonder what the bleedin car manufacturers are doing, failing to fit all these sure-fire gizmos with "no negatives effects at all".....

Just imagine if Ford fitted this exhaust, coupled to a hydrogen injection system, a magnet on the fuel line, and a tank of redex to feed the engine. What an awesome beast that would be.
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by 350matt » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:57 pm

Actually there's been some good research into hydrogen injection, with the right approach it can yield benefits
take a butchers at the attached report about the effect of a 1% volume flow H2 injection
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Cooled_EGR_and_alternative_fuels_V1.pdf
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by 350matt » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:59 pm

Dan.NJ72 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:51 pm
I'm tempted to get in touch with them about the dyno day up at RR... If I can get my car up there for a pair of back to back runs - one with a gizmo and one without - it could be interesting...

I am, currently, however in the camp that calls snakeoil on it
why not give it a go?

if they truly stand behind the product they would welcome the testing

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Re: So what do we think?

Post by SeriousSam » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:07 pm

There was that dyno day at Rotary Revs a while back where a couple of cars that had the hydrogen electrolyser things fitted were benchmarked against cars that didn't. Both hydrogen cars made more power, and both blew out coolant, but there was definitely something happening there. Not that I'll go fitting one anytime soon, but there's potential for benefit even in products that are termed snake oil. In some isolated cases that is.

I can't believe that no major manufacturer has ever tested this exhaust vortex generator and thought 'this gives so many amazing gains, we're not going to install it on our cars'. Makes sense for a water splitter that needs topping up to be left off the bill of materials, but an exhaust component that gives free gains and requires no maintenance? I can't see it.
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:17 pm

350matt wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:59 pm
Dan.NJ72 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:51 pm
I'm tempted to get in touch with them about the dyno day up at RR... If I can get my car up there for a pair of back to back runs - one with a gizmo and one without - it could be interesting...

I am, currently, however in the camp that calls snakeoil on it
why not give it a go?

if they truly stand behind the product they would welcome the testing
Partially because that would require effort, and partially because my engine is foobah! lol.

I'll drop them a line and maybe link to this thread. I would be interested to see how it all ends up.
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by Dr. FrankenRex » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:25 pm

I've pinged them an email asking, firstly, whether they have done any testing on rotary engines and specifically the RX8 and, secondly, whether they would consider loaning me one of the correct diameter to attach to my RX8 for back to back testing on a dyno.

We shall see.
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by Lemon » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:06 am

question i would have is how long one would last with rotary exhaust temps. it's nice that they offer a lifetime guarantee but wouldn't want to be using it every week when you keep melting the guts out of it.
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by warpc0il » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:39 pm

It's one of those things that, given the tiny tooling costs involved and the "claimed" benefits, why wouldn't any (every) motor manufacturer be fitting these as standard?

The "patented technology" just doesn't wash, as the huge profits from licensing to a manufacturer would be way more than they could ever achieve any other way.

Sorry but I have to file this in the "snake oil" bin.
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by 350matt » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:04 pm

because a lot of OEM's suffer from 'not invented here' syndrome and a general lack of willingness to try something new

I agree that its unlikely to be a miracle cure as they say though
but until you do try it or have one apart to understand how it works then you can't just dismiss it

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Re: So what do we think?

Post by HwAoRrDk » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:51 pm

It says that the technology is patented, so I thought I'd look it up to see what further non-marketing-wank information could be gleaned from the patent. :P

I think I found it - patent number GB2468850:
https://www.ipo.gov.uk/p-ipsum/Document ... cument.pdf

There also appears to be a US patent, number US8627921B2, which at a glance is similar (if not identical) in nature. The same guy also appears to have patented roughly the same thing again more recently, but this time specifically in relation to diesel DPF filters.

After a quick skim read of the GB patent, I'm none the wiser as to how it's supposed to work. The patent doesn't really describe how it does what it claims to do, only the means. I thought patents for things like this had to specify the scientific basis for the claim? Anyway, the diagrams in the patent give a better view of what it's physically like inside, so I'll leave it to the brains trust here to argue the science. :)
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by warpc0il » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:01 pm

350matt wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:04 pm
because a lot of OEM's suffer from 'not invented here' syndrome and a general lack of willingness to try something new
Behind the scenes all the car manufacturers I've worked with (Ford, Mazda, Yamaha, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo) try everything and anything they think might give them an edge. A lot of these experiments never make it past the dyno or the mules but, believe me, if there was any value in this then one of the big names would be on to it.

Many brands are conservative in what they choose bring to market but none can afford to be when it comes to engineering development.

The Ford group has a global team monitoring all new patents to see who is working on what, or if some independent mind has just patented the next major breakthrough.
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by HwAoRrDk » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:11 pm

Was it Ford who bought the rights to some guy's mis-fuelling (i.e. petrol into diesel vehicle) prevention gadget, which they now promote under the 'Easy Fuel' name? If I'm recalling correctly, that's the only instance I've ever heard of where a major motor manufacturer took up a lone inventor's creation.
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Re: So what do we think?

Post by PeteH » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:37 pm

350matt wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:04 pm
because a lot of OEM's suffer from 'not invented here' syndrome and a general lack of willingness to try something new
I don't agree. If there was anything like 20bhp in it then one of them would have tried it, and all the others would have had to follow suit. And F1 teams certainly don't suffer from "throw away performance" syndrome, and I've never seen a vortex generator in an F1 exhaust.......

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Re: So what do we think?

Post by PeteH » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:40 pm

HwAoRrDk wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:11 pm
that's the only instance I've ever heard of where a major motor manufacturer took up a lone inventor's creation.
Felix Wankel would be rather disappointed with that statement...... ;) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: So what do we think?

Post by 350matt » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:19 am

the patent makes a reasonable fist of explaining how it works
so it basically a very low impedence silencer
it won't give any gains over a straight bit of pipe ( hence thats why you won't see one a racing engine)

I'd like to see some experimental results though as most OEM's are always battling exhaust back pressure and if you can get decent sound attenuation with very little back pressure and its lightweight solution compared to a large volume silencer then its well worth trying

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Re: So what do we think?

Post by Delanor » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:58 am

1`m pretty sure Ford Fiesta ST owners won`t be queuing up for one @ £1493 :shock: even if it has got a twin tail pipe.

In their dreams - think what would be the cost for an RX-8!

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Re: So what do we think?

Post by 350matt » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:35 pm

good lord ' ow much???

is that the price on their website? as I saw was £995 + VAT for the ST catback

still expensive though as a mountune system is about £600....

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