Sump options; greedy or ?

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Scartlead » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:22 pm

Cabriolet wrote:All in, including postage and import duty and vat and everything mine came to £437.84.
That is crazy money. RHD do the greddy for 225 + shipping of 45 + customs, so give or take 320 ish so a fair bit cheaper. Question is are they that much better than oem?
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Cabriolet » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:39 pm

Much better IMHO. Larger capacity. Internally baffled with hinged partition doors. Comes pre tapped for gauge senders.
Less than £500 for anything that bolts to an RX-8 is cheap.

Flywheel and clutch ~£600
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Then there is the rebuild itself £4180

The £100 difference between two oil pans is lost in the noise. Get the bigger one if you want more oil in the system. Which I did. It will then cost you 2 extra litres of oil every oil change. The £100 difference soon becomes the cheap part.

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by warpc0il » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:01 pm

The RX8 Performance sump may be well engineered and look the business but I'm still convinced that increasing the sump capacity is a bad idea, unless you're building a drift monster, otherwise it's not just form over function, it significantly increases, rather than decreases the risk of damage to your engine.

FYI A Mazda sump (oil pan), new from a main dealer, is around £190.
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Liam22 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:49 pm

I'm with warpc, there's plenty of oil capacity already and a lower sump means greater risk of clouting it on something.

Mine was rusty, I replaced with a nearly new OEM item plus Essex Rotary baffle plate.

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by boosted » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:50 pm

Mines 70mm from floor....only a matter of time before i hit it....its only 10mm lower tops than standard ....the extra capacity comes from the additional space in the passenger side...i cant raise any more as 1mm below my chassis rail...its got a scrape on it....holds an extra litre...to remove my engine i have to drop the sump off...lol....

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by boosted » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:00 pm

I bought it because my rear rotor bearing failed and i thought it was oil starvation due to slosh burp surge...lost another engine with this sump fitted so defo not starvation as solved the burp issue immediately....im happy with but it cost me a fortune...

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by warpc0il » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:00 am

Sometimes I think people look at the resolution to a particular problem of one model/type of car and think that, as "a performance mod", it should be appropriate on all cars.

There are mods that are required to turn a standard saloon or even a hot hatch into something approaching a real sports car that just don't apply if you start off with a real sports car - like the RX8.
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:22 pm

So I've done some number crunching and can probably supply a sump machined from one piece of material with baffles and an o-ring or gasket for about £330.

Will post up drawings when I get chance to sit down with my machinist. But expect something similar to the Greddy but better obviously.

Will need 5 confirmed orders to start this project.

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Eddie_r32 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:58 pm

Sounds good to me (everyone needs to stop tempting me with cool stuff that I really really need)
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by PeteH » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:00 pm

If you develop a dry sump kit I'll sign right up :thumleft:

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Eddie_r32 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:12 pm

Eddie_r32 wrote:Sounds good to me (everyone needs to stop tempting me with cool stuff that I really really need)
one thing will it increase capacity as for what I want to do more oil means goood
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Conan » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:25 pm

PeteH wrote:If you develop a dry sump kit I'll sign right up :thumleft:
I'll second that
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by V8 Power » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:28 pm

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by PeteH » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:36 pm

Boosted maybe?

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:47 pm

PeteH wrote:If you develop a dry sump kit I'll sign right up :thumleft:
Sorry Pete that won't be happening
Eddie_r32 wrote:
Eddie_r32 wrote:Sounds good to me (everyone needs to stop tempting me with cool stuff that I really really need)
one thing will it increase capacity as for what I want to do more oil means goood
It will have slightly more oil in terms of capacity, some cooling fins etc.. I need to get my thinking cap on! :D

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by mzivtins » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:19 pm

I would have thought the primary benefit would be that if you smashed the greddy sump into the ground it wont break, so you save your engine, the oem one is awful much like everything else oem, it rusts, made cheaply and will fail, and when it does fail, will make a good mess.

I wouldn't lower a car without an uprated sump!

p.s R3 is even worse! that thing is like a slice of cheese!

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by PeteH » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:19 pm

The opposite is true!

When the Mazda sump is new it is made from malleable steel, which takes a bashing quite well. If it does get a leak because the seal is damaged, or you get a hole, it will probably be a small leak, that you have a chance of catching before catastrophe. You can even beat it back into shape!

But aluminium alloy is brittle. It won't deform when it gets a clout, it just shatters. Big chunks come off, and you loose all your oil in one go. A fixing it is much more difficult.

Take a look at 350Matt's thread for a typical aluminium alloy failure..... :(
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Lemon » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:32 pm

PeteH wrote:The opposite is true!
But aluminium alloy is brittle. It won't deform when it gets a clout, it just shatters. Big chunks come off, and you loose all your oil in one go. A fixing it is much more difficult.

Take a look at 350Matt's thread for a typical aluminium alloy failure..... :(
yeah i've seen videos of people with too low cars catching an aluminium sump on a kerb on track and it makes one hell of a mess of everything when it goes...
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by boosted » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:43 pm

Did someone say Dry sump? Lol.
2 please. 1 rx8 1 rx7....

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by ChrisHolmes » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:18 pm

boosted wrote:Did someone say Dry sump? Lol.
2 please. 1 rx8 1 rx7....

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by PeteH » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:26 pm

Oh yes. Dry sump kits exist. But they are sourced from the US, and cost a fortune (£3k I think!).
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:55 am

PeteH wrote:Oh yes. Dry sump kits exist. But they are sourced from the US, and cost a fortune (£3k I think!).
Hence why I'm not planning a kit although that being being said, if someone wants to waive £3K at me!! :lol:

For now I'll just put the offer of a machined single piece sump out there.

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by delta0 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:59 am

PeteH wrote:The opposite is true!

When the Mazda sump is new it is made from malleable steel, which takes a bashing quite well. If it does get a leak because the seal is damaged, or you get a hole, it will probably be a small leak, that you have a chance of catching before catastrophe. You can even beat it back into shape!

But aluminium alloy is brittle. It won't deform when it gets a clout, it just shatters. Big chunks come off, and you loose all your oil in one go. A fixing it is much more difficult.

Take a look at 350Matt's thread for a typical aluminium alloy failure..... :(
Cast aluminium will shatter. If it was machined from a billet then it would be as deformable as the steel.
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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by 350matt » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:32 pm

I'm not quite sure why you'd want a dry sump anyway on this engine?

the roundy round bits are well out of the oil anyway and I'd say a decent baffle plate with some 1 way flaps would do the trick to help with any oil starvation to keep the pickup under water / oil

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Re: Sump options; greedy or ?

Post by 13Black » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:03 pm

Matt's failure was cast iron however :D speaking of cast aluminium failure though, that's what we're dealing with at work currently on an old diff casing :(
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