220whp from an NA '8?

Any form of normally aspirated power mods.
User avatar
Dave-B
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:28 pm
RX-8: Supercharged
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Leeds
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:17 pm

Please don't go all that way with such high expectations only to be disappointed. To put it in perspective a strong ported engine with breathing mods would be extremely lucky to make 200hp. Without a map you'll not get over 200hp. Id love to be proved wrong but sadly this is the truth of it.
RR Ported, groupB remap, Sparco seats, Toyo manifold & RB catback, de-cat, CC lightened fly & stage 2 clutch, RB f&r ARB's, Cusco zero coilovers, Cusco strut brace f&r, Ksport 8 pots, yellow stuff f&r, Koyo rad & Samco hoses, short shifter, RB ram air duct, RR coils, full aero kit, Eibach spacers, Black rims/Vred's & silver rims/R888, dashhawk, RR sump & rad guards

User avatar
jrmurray1108
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2559
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:13 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Nordic Green
Location: Starcross, Exeter, Devon
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by jrmurray1108 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:27 pm

would be nice to see however, the dyno numbers before his remap side by side :)
Jay

Gone but not forgotten - Nordic Green bridgey of awesomeness - http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 04&t=61154

Now rocking a 93 FD3S and a SN95 Mustang Cobra :D

User avatar
Dave-B
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:28 pm
RX-8: Supercharged
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Leeds
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:13 pm

Jay I had a 19bhp gain from the remap, well worth it when your rebuild's run in
RR Ported, groupB remap, Sparco seats, Toyo manifold & RB catback, de-cat, CC lightened fly & stage 2 clutch, RB f&r ARB's, Cusco zero coilovers, Cusco strut brace f&r, Ksport 8 pots, yellow stuff f&r, Koyo rad & Samco hoses, short shifter, RB ram air duct, RR coils, full aero kit, Eibach spacers, Black rims/Vred's & silver rims/R888, dashhawk, RR sump & rad guards

User avatar
jrmurray1108
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2559
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:13 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Nordic Green
Location: Starcross, Exeter, Devon
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by jrmurray1108 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:21 pm

Cheers Dave, that's quite a chunk...hoping the rest of the parts arrive this week so I can get it dropped off!

Is yours a street or bridge? I'm still a bit torn but leaning toward a bridge as the car isn't a daily. What was your final number in the end?
Jay

Gone but not forgotten - Nordic Green bridgey of awesomeness - http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 04&t=61154

Now rocking a 93 FD3S and a SN95 Mustang Cobra :D

User avatar
Dave-B
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:28 pm
RX-8: Supercharged
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Leeds
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:08 pm

Mines a street port, the final figure was 199. I was a little dissapointed to start with but I could definitely feel the benefits from the remap right across the Rev range. Once out on track you can see the difference between ported and non ported engines, I haven't come across a faster 8 yet. I've done a number of mods since then that I'm sure will have increased that figure.

What I will say is that unlike piston engines rotaries appear to produce very varied power figures, you could have a strong standard engine that produces as much power as a ported engine. I also believe that as capable as the ecu is to relearn trims etc the only way to make the most from porting work however extreme is to perform a remap.

I'm still a bit sceptical over dyno results, different shoot modes and all that, so I take it all with a pinch of salt. I have another 200bhp car that's deffo not as quick as my 8 so I'm happy.
RR Ported, groupB remap, Sparco seats, Toyo manifold & RB catback, de-cat, CC lightened fly & stage 2 clutch, RB f&r ARB's, Cusco zero coilovers, Cusco strut brace f&r, Ksport 8 pots, yellow stuff f&r, Koyo rad & Samco hoses, short shifter, RB ram air duct, RR coils, full aero kit, Eibach spacers, Black rims/Vred's & silver rims/R888, dashhawk, RR sump & rad guards

User avatar
jrmurray1108
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2559
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:13 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Nordic Green
Location: Starcross, Exeter, Devon
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by jrmurray1108 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:13 pm

Yeah I get that. The one tangible thing you do know, is that you got a 19bhp increase, to know the increase is good enough for me. Can't wait to get it back on the road, broke in and tuned!
Jay

Gone but not forgotten - Nordic Green bridgey of awesomeness - http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 04&t=61154

Now rocking a 93 FD3S and a SN95 Mustang Cobra :D

User avatar
Dave-B
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:28 pm
RX-8: Supercharged
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Leeds
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:15 pm

Yes that's right an undeniable increase.

Go for the Bridgeport :D
RR Ported, groupB remap, Sparco seats, Toyo manifold & RB catback, de-cat, CC lightened fly & stage 2 clutch, RB f&r ARB's, Cusco zero coilovers, Cusco strut brace f&r, Ksport 8 pots, yellow stuff f&r, Koyo rad & Samco hoses, short shifter, RB ram air duct, RR coils, full aero kit, Eibach spacers, Black rims/Vred's & silver rims/R888, dashhawk, RR sump & rad guards

cib24
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:49 pm

I really wish I could get a remap done but if Steve is only there on Wednesday during my track day at Oulton Park then I would need to leave the track at some point to get it done and that isn't happening. I'm of the opinion that track days are more fun than dyno runs.

Dave-B, I'm wondering if the figures you are reporting are in Wheel Horsepower ("whp") or Brake Horsepower ("bhp")? There are so many other RX-8's out there that have been dyno'd, and whilst they all vary in power it would seem that the average range is somewhere between 170-190 whp (approx. 200 - 223 bhp) in stock form. Every dyno chart I can find on the web of a ported RX-8 shows them putting down at least 215 whp (approx. 250 bhp) with a street port, and the maximum I have seen is 240 whp (approx. 280 bhp) with insane porting and custom everything. So, is your car putting down 199 whp which would translate into approx. 230 bhp?
1999 Mazda RX-7 Type RS

Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

My Build Thread

cib24
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:50 pm

This morning I tried to schedule a remap and dyno with Steve on Wednesday at 3-4pm figuring that would be around the time the track day was concluding. However, he is fully booked Wednesday so I decided to cancel the dyno session on Tuesday since I didn't see much point in it without the remap after reading everyone's posts and seeing that Dave-B got an extra 19hp out of one. So, what will happen is I will book another track day at Oulton Park in 2015 and get a remap at that time, or if I end up vacationing in Snowdonia next year, I will stop at Group B along the way.
1999 Mazda RX-7 Type RS

Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

My Build Thread

User avatar
RX8Head
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 8055
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:03 pm
Colour: Custom
Location: Abbots Langley, Herts
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by RX8Head » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:20 pm

Just a quick question is the car still under warranty with Carl as I know in the past if you had a remap done it'd void any warranty you have with him. Might be worth checking if you haven't already.
Chris :D
RX8 Stealth Fighter Full list of mods complete with pics can be seen here 8), temporarily/possible permanently off the road due to an off at Brands Hatch :( .
Now rocking an SC VX220 :D .
Part of your friendly moderating team helping the keep the forum tidy, if you have any issues then feel free to drop me a pm and I'll do my best to help :wink: .

User avatar
Dave-B
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:28 pm
RX-8: Supercharged
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Leeds
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Dave-B » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:56 pm

Good decision to wait and get the remap too at a later date. GroupB will explain the dyno results way better than I can, but I'm pretty sure my figures were flywheel power. Enjoy your track day I wish I was coming.
RR Ported, groupB remap, Sparco seats, Toyo manifold & RB catback, de-cat, CC lightened fly & stage 2 clutch, RB f&r ARB's, Cusco zero coilovers, Cusco strut brace f&r, Ksport 8 pots, yellow stuff f&r, Koyo rad & Samco hoses, short shifter, RB ram air duct, RR coils, full aero kit, Eibach spacers, Black rims/Vred's & silver rims/R888, dashhawk, RR sump & rad guards

User avatar
macgtech
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:04 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Leicestershire, UK
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by macgtech » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:23 pm

That's a shame - was looking forward to seeing before and after figures.

Has anyone got/seen before and after figures for a change to the stock exhaust to decat/backbox (and manifold I suppose). Would be interesting to see 'bang for buck'...
MacG Racing Ltd., UK based Motorsport Racing Team - follow us on Twitter and on Facebook

MacG Racing RX8 Race Car Build Thread

cib24
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:52 pm

It's tough to say considering the fact that most people don't go to a dyno after every single mod (let alone the same dyno under the same conditions), but if all of the evidence out there on other rotary enthusiast sites is to be believed, most would expect about 5-10 bhp before a remap from a decat alone. The backbox is a tricky one because like cold air intakes for this car, some backboxes cause a loss of power, some have no change in power, and a few provide a very small increase in power. Someone over on rx8club.com had a full Racing Beat system (including the manifold) and claimed an increase of nearly 15 bhp prior to a remap but his claim wasn't supported by a before/after dyno sheet.

There have been several people who have dyno'd ported RX-8s with various breather mods and an associated remap, and from what I have seen no one except for Dave-B has posted figures lower than 215whp (about 250 bhp) with all of these mods. Of course, this is all dependent on the dyno being used and the calibration factors since some dynos are more conservative than others. A good example is the classic Mustang Dyno vs Dynojet brands in the USA. The Mustang Dynos always show figures that are at least 20% lower than what a Dynojet will spit out. I'm not entirely sure what Group B uses but I would think with Dave-B's mods, if he were to go somewhere else his figures would be significantly higher. After all, Group B posted a dyno chart of a Petitt supercharged RX-8 and the peak hp and tq figures were much lower than what other Petitt supercharged dynos had shown in the past.
1999 Mazda RX-7 Type RS

Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

My Build Thread

User avatar
Bulldog
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 7450
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:49 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Sunlight Silver
Location: Liverpool
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Bulldog » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:14 pm

Dyno dynamics in shoot 2r mode
It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.

More info in my project thread

Worry about your character, not your reputation. Your character is who you are, and your reputation is who people think you are.

cib24
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:41 pm

It would seem that a Dyno Dynamics dyno reads about 12-20% lower than a Dynojet which is the most common dyno in the USA and would explain the higher figures most US RX-8's that have been dyno'd are showing.

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/vendor ... nojet.html

http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/420 ... s-dynojet/

There are numerous other links out there comparing the differences.
1999 Mazda RX-7 Type RS

Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

My Build Thread

User avatar
Bulldog
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 7450
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:49 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Sunlight Silver
Location: Liverpool
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 90 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Bulldog » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:55 pm

Its all relative and based on a transmission loss formula. The temperature of the air effects results.
It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.

More info in my project thread

Worry about your character, not your reputation. Your character is who you are, and your reputation is who people think you are.

User avatar
Soul
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 4729
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:50 pm
RX-8: Import
Colour: Galaxy Grey
Location: Maidenhead, Berks.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Soul » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:00 pm

So after all those arguments with the yanks on FB, their dynos read 12-20% higher? Right.... :)
'09 Mazdaspeed Galaxy Grey JDM
^^ Lots of mods ^^ AEM, AgencyPower midpipe, HKS Legamax......

User avatar
Will66
Communications Team
Communications Team
Posts: 17936
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:45 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Metropolitan Grey
Location: Bury St Edmunds
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Will66 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:23 pm

Dynos are only useful for tuning and seeing comparative gains. There are too many variables for them to be considered absolute proof.
RX8OC Met Advisor and Ex-Moderator!
Miss May 2013 with these modifications02 November 2012

Certified Tarmac Terrorist! Evading the colour police since March 2013 :ninja:

Mazda RX8 - The Liv Tyler's Lips of Motoring

User avatar
DanBass
Communications Team
Communications Team
Posts: 14151
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:18 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Galaxy Grey
Location: Rogerstone, Gwent
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 155 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by DanBass » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:50 pm

That was a very purposeful 'right' there Soul :)

*grabs popcorn and logs into facebook waiting for Justin to start the fireworks* :twisted:
'96 NA8 MX-5: MeisterR, and soon to be choo-choo'd
'56 Galaxy Grey PZ: sold

'54 Brilliant Black 192: sold
'54 Titanium Grey 192: rebuilt, sold
'53 plate Velocity Red 192: being rebuilt...still

‘67 Sunset Orange BMW 335D MSport Touring
'01 Topaz Blue BMW 330ci convertible

User avatar
macgtech
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:04 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Leicestershire, UK
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by macgtech » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:09 am

We have seen differences of upto 15% between dyno's with cars we have run with the same setup/map.

We have also seen some dyno's spitting out total nonsense in terms of wheel hp to flywheel hp ratios...one said we lost 12bhp through the drivetrain on a 600bhp car...I am pretty sure that wasn't correct!

I am not really interested in absolute power - just comparative gains between modifications. Even the tyres (and even tyre pressures) you run can have a difference, so absolute power is meaningless.
MacG Racing Ltd., UK based Motorsport Racing Team - follow us on Twitter and on Facebook

MacG Racing RX8 Race Car Build Thread

User avatar
macgtech
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:04 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Leicestershire, UK
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by macgtech » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:11 am

cib24 wrote:Someone over on rx8club.com had a full Racing Beat system (including the manifold) and claimed an increase of nearly 15 bhp prior to a remap but his claim wasn't supported by a before/after dyno sheet..
What on earth is the point?! How did they measure the power?
MacG Racing Ltd., UK based Motorsport Racing Team - follow us on Twitter and on Facebook

MacG Racing RX8 Race Car Build Thread

cib24
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:35 am

macgtech wrote:
cib24 wrote:Someone over on rx8club.com had a full Racing Beat system (including the manifold) and claimed an increase of nearly 15 bhp prior to a remap but his claim wasn't supported by a before/after dyno sheet..
What on earth is the point?! How did they measure the power?
He claimed it was dyno'd but never produced the results after people requested to see the charts.
1999 Mazda RX-7 Type RS

Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

My Build Thread

cib24
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 933
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:38 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:43 am

Will66 wrote:Dynos are only useful for tuning and seeing comparative gains. There are too many variables for them to be considered absolute proof.
Of course, but the numbers are still fun to talk about. If we had cars that were capable of putting out monster hp/tq figures then dyno numbers would be taken more seriously by RX-8 owners in general, but obviously our cars are a pain in the ass on the dyno so most people prefer not to talk about it. I take my car to the track and have observed how quick it is in a straight line compared to other RX-8's (at Oulton Park yesterday I was achieving an indicated 8mph extra compared to fellow member tractorboy on the Lakeside straight), but considering the thousands of £'s I have put into this vehicle I want to be able to quantify it's power to help me justify the costs (or P*** me off :mrgreen: ).
1999 Mazda RX-7 Type RS

Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

My Build Thread

Post Reply

Return to “Naturally Aspirated”