220whp from an NA '8?

Any form of normally aspirated power mods.
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Soul
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220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Soul » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:14 pm

So as the Facebook debate (fight) about my Rotas morphed into a discussion about power loss due to heavy rims, the following exchange took place.
Scott Redmond Never give up the fight, you would be surprised how fast a 220WHP RX-8 with some weight reduction is.
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Justin Hayes Except there's no way we're getting 220WHP
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Justin Hayes Or even close
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Vinnie Hemmings 220whp?
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Vinnie Hemmings lmao
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Scott Redmond LOL, have you guys been living under a rock? Plenty of NA Rx-8's have put down 220+ wheel horsepower.
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Ollie Osborne 2.20whp
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Vinnie Hemmings They have been dynoed wrong then
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Ollie Osborne Most of my power goes into flame production.
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Justin Hayes Really? I've not seen one here. Most 231s here dyno at around 200bhp.
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Justin Hayes So whatever that is at the wheels
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Scott Redmond LOL, Vinnie the Koni Challenge RX-8's were NA and put down 235-240WHP. The dynos were regulated as they are in a lot of classes.
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Vinnie Hemmings ^^ and thats rare!, most 6 ports make 160 to 190 bhp, and the 4 port is 140 to 160 bhp
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Vinnie Hemmings FACT
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Justin Hayes Do they measure BHP differently in the US?
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Vinnie Hemmings They must use the same Dyno that Mazda did lol
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Ollie Osborne Massively overestimated because 'Murica!?
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Scott Redmond BHP is different, but really guys 220WHP is failry easily attainable with a proper tune, properly built engine with a street port, quality header, cat back, and intake setup.
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Scott Redmond hell the Star Mazda series open wheel race cars run the Renesis and make 250-260WHP with a Motec ECU, exhaust, etc.
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Justin Hayes There are plenty of rebuilds here running street port, D585s etc but I don't think I've heard of any in the club hitting 220 at the wheels.
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Scott Redmond All about the tune man.
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Vinnie Hemmings The Koni engines were race built, so different internals, different injection, passive ports ect. No good for daily driving. Even with agressive ports here in the uk with proper tune, we only just get up to the quoted Mazda figures.
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Justin Hayes Even the tuned ones. I think you guys had a headstart on that though as your ECUs were opened up way before we could.
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Scott Redmond Vinnie Hemmings The Koni engines ran stock internals.
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Scott Redmond Lot's of the Koni cars are out and about now at events since the series ended long ago. One of my buddies just had a Renesis built by Darryl Drummond, famed rotary race engine builder ($$$$) and it made 268HP on the engine dyno. So once it is broke in it should easily make 220WHP or more. It is daily driven.
So is it really possible to get that much power from NA? The guy has posted his engine dyno figures and it indeed is over 260hp.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Nerdstrike » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:31 pm

There was a lighter flywheel involved, which would give the impression of greater power output on a rolling road, but not *that* much.

I also looked at the data posted by the guy following, and it looked like it was fuelled to an AFR of 13 to max revs. Very lean for a long-lasting and cat-preserving road engine! Anyone else care to verify my interpretation of the table of numbers?

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Soul » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:02 pm

10646750_10202555992356707_4457730565400448839_n.jpg
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by warpc0il » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:15 pm

CBPwr is "Corrected Power" not "measured power".

[urlw=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GCbn ... hp&f=false]This book extract[/urlw] gives some explanation
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by CameronFarrell182 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:28 pm

Maybe theres some lies being told in regards to it being n/a?
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by warpc0il » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:12 pm

:whathesaid:

The torque curve described by those numbers looks more like a FI unit to me.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Flameshades » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:29 pm

and if its all about the tune why is the torque so low??
this was my last "tune"
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Soul » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:49 pm

This was the graph he posted
10649610_10152713900999275_7279999029610568931_n.jpg
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Soul » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:50 pm

"Dont pay attention to the tq the pickup breaks up allot on RX's due to the coil pack setup."
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by VelocityVinnie » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:47 pm

lol, they were not having it were they!!

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:25 am

Strange, maybe a small shot of nitrous?
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Soul » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:39 am

VelocityVinnie wrote:lol, they were not having it were they!!
No, they really weren't :D
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:08 pm

Made that from ours, and that wasn't with running lean up top either like many do, it was a safe, rich, race map.

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Soul » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:23 pm

Interesting....
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by jrmurray1108 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:37 pm

I will be getting mine ported (probably bridge) during its rebuild and tuned. It will have AEM and stainless manifold in addition to signature mods..

Will post dyno results here and let you know :)
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Nerdstrike » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:54 pm

RenesisRaceBuggy wrote:Made that from ours, and that wasn't with running lean up top either like many do, it was a safe, rich, race map.
I would expect you to get lots with your effectively absent air intake and straight through exhaust. Or was that not in the buggy?

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:46 pm

Actually the intake was running through 2 seperate sets of filters

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by bigpete » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:05 pm

Any pictures of that and how did it run with two filters?
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by benedunn » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:33 pm

You can get 220hp out of an NA Reni :wink: a half bridge will do it! Absolutely needs mapping to do it though!!!

Phil, I was at pips a couple of weeks since, we made the most power his dyno has seen from an na msp. I knew your engine did well but it never got mentioned, most he'd seen was 206 fwhp before our half bridge went on :?

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:50 pm

Well, not entirely surprising eh? :lol:

It made 212/213 (hubs) at Pips but we had a wheel bearing gone/loose at the time and it was bedding engine in, once we had a few miles on it we nipped down to a local place, strapped it down so the driveshafts were level, and it made another 10 ponies.

Dyno's though, take 'em all with a pinch of salt...

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by RenesisRaceBuggy » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:16 pm

bigpete wrote:Any pictures of that and how did it run with two filters?
There was a pair of paper pre-filters in the roof scoop:

Image

And then it ran an oiled K&N cone filter on the end of the throttle body to catch what the prefilters let through/act as a backup in case they got clogged and started letting crap in, which sat in the ally airbox here:

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:15 pm

I'm scheduled for a dyno session at Group B motorsport on Tuesday afternoon, the day before my track day at Oulton Park. Whilst I am expecting good results, I think they will be hindered somewhat by the fact that my Racing Beat cat-back hasn't arrived to complete my exhaust system, my rebuilt engine only has 4,200 miles on it, and that I can't get it remapped since Steven at Group B is not in on Tuesday. Hopefully my car achieves numbers that make me want to go back for a remap whenever I book another track day at Oulton Park in the future.

Carl at Hayward Rotary said I may lose a bit of top end due to the stock cat-back still being on my car (and having a ported engine with a full exhaust otherwise). Who knows really, but I'd be interested to see what you guys think I may achieve on the day! I will be upset if I don't achieve over 215 bhp at the very minimum and with the cat-back and remap I would be expecting somewhere near or above 230 bhp if the extra mph I get on the straights compared to non-ported RX-8s is any indication of the additional power my motor has.
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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Bulldog » Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:39 pm

I would be very suprised if you get near 215 on a stock map with a stock exhaust

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by cib24 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:44 pm

Maybe, but several street ported cars in the US and Australia/New Zealand have hit more than what I am aiming for. I'm hoping I have a chance since my car has a lightened flywheel, K&N filter, Racing Beat header and mid pipe, and a ported motor. The port includes enlarged primary and secondary intake ports(quite a bit larger than the Racing Beat template according to Carl), and an enlarged tertiary port with a bridge. Compared to a non-ported motor the car pulls stronger all over and particularly up top where it feels like power is rising all the way to 9,500 RPM (but we will find out on Tuesday). At Snetterton earlier this year I was hitting nearly 115 mph on the Bentley straight while other non-ported RX-8s on street tires like myself were only hitting 109-110 mph.

I think the stock cat back will hurt the top end somewhat and a remap would obviously be useful in extracting as much power as possible. Anyway, dyno numbers are subjective but they sure are fun to analyze and talk about!
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Mods - Apexi PFC @ 1.00-1.06 bar, AEM WI 250cc/min, Knight Sports DP, RE-A 80mm cat, Fujitsubo exhaust, Greddy SMIC, Koyo N-Flow, Ohlins DFVs, poly bushings, Dixcel FP 17" discs , 17"x8" BBS RG-R, Nankang NS-2R, Project Mu pads.

398 Bhp (340 Whp) @ 6,036 RPM, 350-360 lb/ft (299-307 Wlb/ft) @ 2,900 - 6,100 RPM. - 12 Nov 17

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Re: 220whp from an NA '8?

Post by Bulldog » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:52 pm

Looking forward to seeing your results :)
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