Panel filters

Any form of normally aspirated power mods.
Post Reply
User avatar
DanBass
Communications Team
Communications Team
Posts: 14151
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:18 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Galaxy Grey
Location: Rogerstone, Gwent
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 155 times

Panel filters

Post by DanBass » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:40 pm

There's a lot of discussion about aftermarket "hi-flow" panel filters recently.

I've been getting a slightly erratic idle on occasion for a week or so. I've been busy sorting the rebuild car out so haven't had much chance to check this out and it's not been enough to bother me. Today I had a free 10 minutes so I thought I'd whip the airbox out and have a look at the MAF etc, check I hadn't had an oil overfill, the screens were aligned etc.

I've had a PiperCross panel filter in the car from pretty much the week I bought it about 2.5 years ago. It's been cleaned annually with the correct kit, the last time was about 6 months ago. I noticed the last time I cleaned it that it had bowed out slightly, from the large amounts of airflow the car creates. I wasn't too bothered by this and it didn't have any effect on performance.

On taking the box apart today I noticed straight away there was a load of sticky black crap all over the front screen. I thought it was oil for a second or two, but on closer inspection it's foam. The back of the panel filter has basically disintegrated and been sucked through the intake. It's coated the MAF, and the screens. This is after the best clean I could give it in the time I had:

Image

It was covered before this.

You can't see it too well in the picture but just behind the mesh you can see where the foam was torn and shredded:

Image

Needless to say I've ordered 3 paper filters and will be going back to them the second they show up. If you are running an aftermarket filter it's worth checking in case yours is the same. I also noticed a coating of oil on the screens from the filter, and I definitely didn't over soak it when it was cleaned, so I won't be using one anymore.
'96 NA8 MX-5: MeisterR, and soon to be choo-choo'd
'56 Galaxy Grey PZ: sold

'54 Brilliant Black 192: sold
'54 Titanium Grey 192: rebuilt, sold
'53 plate Velocity Red 192: being rebuilt...still

‘67 Sunset Orange BMW 335D MSport Touring
'01 Topaz Blue BMW 330ci convertible

Nerdstrike
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2630
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:47 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Cambridgeshire
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by Nerdstrike » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:45 pm

That might be applicable for some kind of replacement/warranty return, given how these performance companies like to protect their image. Perhaps we should all be keeping an eye on things at any rate. One failure does not constitute a trend, but still has meaning.

User avatar
DanBass
Communications Team
Communications Team
Posts: 14151
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:18 pm
RX-8: PZ
Colour: Galaxy Grey
Location: Rogerstone, Gwent
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 155 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by DanBass » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:47 pm

No of course, but it's something I felt should be highlighted to others using them, :)

It may have just been a dodgy one, and it is 2 years old, but still, not good.
'96 NA8 MX-5: MeisterR, and soon to be choo-choo'd
'56 Galaxy Grey PZ: sold

'54 Brilliant Black 192: sold
'54 Titanium Grey 192: rebuilt, sold
'53 plate Velocity Red 192: being rebuilt...still

‘67 Sunset Orange BMW 335D MSport Touring
'01 Topaz Blue BMW 330ci convertible

User avatar
stephorx
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 777
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 10:40 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Sunlight Silver
Location: wolverhampton/west midlands
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by stephorx » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:11 pm

I had a pipercross one in mine but after oil overfill purchased a standard one... I noticed on cleaning with pipercross cleaner it lost its shape,... will stick to a standard one from know on..

User avatar
acegeezer
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:40 pm
RX-8: R3
Colour: Sparkling Black
Location: East Coast - Lincolnshire
Has thanked: 178 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by acegeezer » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:37 pm

Good post guys, stopped me from almost grabbing one of these, thanks :)
John
R3-2009 "Sparkling Black" .. Gone but never to be forgotten 8)

New kid on the block .. Renault Megane RS 265 Diamond Black 2012 .. immaculate .. and quick :thumleft: Plus Honda CRV for the Dobermanns' :D

User avatar
Wooly
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:45 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Bury St. Edmunds
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Panel filters

Post by Wooly » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:43 pm

I'll be sticking to paper filters too, for the price for the aftermarket alternatives, it doesn't seem worth it based on the exceptional performance of a standard paper filter!
- Tom

'53 VR 231 // Rota Grid Drifts, Vredstein Ultrac Sessanta // BC Racing Type RA Coilovers // D585 Coils // Toyosports Decat // Connects2 Aux Input // Millers 10W40 & Castrol Power 1 Racing 2T

On the way; Axial Flow Short Shifter // Refurbished Engine Mounts // Racing Beat Front & Rear ARB

User avatar
vic_cambridge
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1767
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:30 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Titanium Grey
Location: Cambridge
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by vic_cambridge » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:59 pm

I have moved back to a standard filter too as the car seems quiter & has more torgue at lower revs
Eibach Lowering Springs, Axial Short Shifter, Tarox F2000 Brake Discs, Braided Brake Lines, K & N Air Filter, Magnecor Leads, Rotary Revs D585 Coils, Toyosport Oil catch can, Rotary Revs Rebuild *SOLD October 2014*

New Ride: Mercedes CLC 220 CDI

Nerdstrike
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2630
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:47 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Cambridgeshire
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by Nerdstrike » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:35 pm

I'll be sure to post if my K&N lets me down at any point.

User avatar
Delanor
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10086
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:38 pm
RX-8: 40th Anniversary
Colour: Crystal White
Location: In the land of the big cat!
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by Delanor » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:49 pm

Actually on numerous back to back trials the stock paper filters have shown a better ability to flow air than the usual so called performance panel filters with the odd exception such as Ram Air filters, ITG filters etc on certain trials. :nod:

*
*
Del.
1st Brilliant Black 190. 2nd Brilliant Black PZ. 3rd Strato Blue 230. 4th Crystal White 40th Anniversary.
Rotary FX fender grills, Japspeed stainless exhaust, K & N filter, Kinetix slotted & dimpled discs, EBC Red stuff pads, Ryan Rotary MK11coils, Magnecor leads, Stainless front & rear grills, HID main beams, LED tail lights, front side lights/front fogs.

User avatar
matt_banks
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Cradley Heath, West Midlands
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by matt_banks » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:32 am

I have had no issues with my K&N panel filter. Logging runs show a good flow of air using this.
192 Winning Blue 07.10.10 - 06.03.13
231 Velocity Red 11.09.13 -

User avatar
Will66
Communications Team
Communications Team
Posts: 17936
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:45 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Metropolitan Grey
Location: Bury St Edmunds
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by Will66 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:39 am

Have you taken it out and checked it's not breaking down like this one did though? Those bits of foam getting into the engine will do it no favours at all.
RX8OC Met Advisor and Ex-Moderator!
Miss May 2013 with these modifications02 November 2012

Certified Tarmac Terrorist! Evading the colour police since March 2013 :ninja:

Mazda RX8 - The Liv Tyler's Lips of Motoring

User avatar
matt_banks
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:35 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Cradley Heath, West Midlands
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by matt_banks » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:50 am

Checked the filter last week but there is no foam on a K&N anyway
192 Winning Blue 07.10.10 - 06.03.13
231 Velocity Red 11.09.13 -

whirlowguy
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 579
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:02 pm
RX-8: Evolve
Colour: Copper Red
Location: Sheffield
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by whirlowguy » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:43 pm

Still blowing the trumpet for the Cosworth panel filter. All subjective I know, but I'm sure there was an improvement over the standard item - particularly in response at lower revs. It's paper, it's not cheap and you need to replace it frequently, but if it works what the :-)

User avatar
Tiny
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2356
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:15 am
RX-8: 231
Colour: Brilliant Black
Location: Hindhead
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by Tiny » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:15 pm

given the bout of sahara that we all experienced a few weeks back it would be good to get out and check your filters and see if they are more blocked than usual.
2001 Mitsubishi Space Runner......Or the Red Bus Of Justice!

I no longer work for Apex and cannot under any circumstances recommend anyone use their services for anything.......ever......

User avatar
Paddy2691
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 961
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:21 am
RX-8: 231
Colour: Sunlight Silver
Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by Paddy2691 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:18 pm

I run the K&N filter and have no problems with it, the reason I didn't go for the Pipercross one is its made from the same foam we use for door and wall filters in the clean room at work and as soon as it gets a little old or has a high air flow is disintegrates so quickly.
07 Sunlight Silver 231- LC Rotary Rebuild & Street port, Team Dynamics 1.2 wheels, Exedy Clutch, Lightened flywheel, Cobra Catback, Tein Street Basis Coilovers, Whiteline adjustable ARB's, 15mm spacers, Gauges, Aero kit, EBC discs & Red Stuff pads, Braided clutch & brake lines, K&N Panel filter, Vred. Ultrac Sessanta 235/40. 8)

User avatar
MattyD88mk
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:50 am
Location: Nottingham
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0

Re: Panel filters

Post by MattyD88mk » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:13 pm

Eaaak good job that mesh is there!

User avatar
CarloR3
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:06 am
RX-8: R3
Colour: Sparkling Black
Location: Manchester/Aberdeen
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0

Re: Panel filters

Post by CarloR3 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:15 am

Does the K&N panel filter also give the car "more sound"?

Cheers

Nerdstrike
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2630
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:47 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Cambridgeshire
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by Nerdstrike » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:55 am

Nope. No noticeable difference in any observables - sound, power or torque.

User avatar
CarloR3
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:06 am
RX-8: R3
Colour: Sparkling Black
Location: Manchester/Aberdeen
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0

Re: Panel filters

Post by CarloR3 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:31 am

Nerdstrike wrote:Nope. No noticeable difference in any observables - sound, power or torque.
Oh....What is the reason for it's existence then? :-k lol

User avatar
warpc0il
Spin Doctor
Spin Doctor
Posts: 25580
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:56 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Lightning Yellow
Location: Groomsport, Co Down, NI
Has thanked: 456 times
Been thanked: 1830 times
Contact:

Re: Panel filters

Post by warpc0il » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:45 am

I got an increase in induction roar and performance when I fitted my K&N, but then I'd only just got the car and the paper filter I was replacing was *nasty*.
Dave
The Spin Doctor ™
uǝǝɹɔs ɹnoʎ ʇɹǝʌuı ǝsɐǝld :ɹoɹɹǝ

Nerdstrike
Former Member
Former Member
Posts: 2630
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:47 pm
RX-8: 231
Colour: Velocity Red
Location: Cambridgeshire
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Panel filters

Post by Nerdstrike » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:57 am

Yes, well... theoretically it flows better. I'm just saying that my bum-dyno didn't notice and I think my peak MAF readings were actually a little lower when I tested them. It's hard to tell whether that was because of conditions or the fancy panel filter I'd just put in. In the end, it's a question of surface area and the K&N and paper filters are pretty similar. Indeed, if the surface is free-flowing enough, you would only get a difference if you pulled more power out of the engine.

The only real advantage is durability and you get a K&N sticker. Hopefully this is not true on all cars.

Post Reply

Return to “Naturally Aspirated”