snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

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will_sco
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snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by will_sco » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:13 pm

I know this is a long shot but before I take the car to the garage

Last night I fitted new d585 coils leads n plugs, started the car and it ran beautifully, I mean really well and it was a fantastic drive. 25 mins in and the new supercharger belt snapped ( bought from motor factors, new one on order from blitz) at 9k as the car beeped. The car stalled and wouldn't restart. I've refitted the old belt to try n get the car going but it wont start, not even a hint of catching. Tried the deflood procedure and changed plugs (old omes back in) still no joy starting. The sensor at the bottom of the engine looks fine, any ideas???
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by warpc0il » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:04 pm

When the belt snapped could it have damaged anything else, like the Eccentric Shaft Sensor or it's connection, or the earth cable for the new coils?

Do you have an ODB2 reader?

Does the supercharger turn ok?
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by will_sco » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:50 pm

Nothing else looks damaged Dave, shaft sensor looks fine.

Charger turns by hand and I hear its still pushing air.

Obd2 threw an intake manifold code 661 and 2021 but I assumed this was as I've switched to the loop from a switch on the ssv. No other codes I'm afraid.

I'm stumped!
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by Phil Bate » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:27 pm

661 is for the control solenoid rather than the position sensor, not sure what 2021 is? Is it possible the belt has taken out any of the harness?
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by will_sco » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:52 am

Yeah I thought it had to be that. I've checked the harness that runs to the starter motor, it likely hit that, but all seems ok and the starter is cranking so I rekon thats all good. It could also have hit the ecu wires but I've checked those and everything is connected n seems fine. Ess seems ok and is protected by the ac belt so I dont think that would get hit. The positive battery terminal was loose so I've changed that, but I can't find any fault. I'm wondering now if the engine blew / let go and the belt snapping is a symptom rather than a problem, but there was no bang or smoke.
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by Phil Bate » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:27 pm

Put a spanner on the alternator nut and feel what it turns over like
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by JoeLanger » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:16 pm

what exactly happened with the engine when the charger stopped spinning?

what other ancillaries are on the charger belt?

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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by will_sco » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:24 pm

I put a 19 socket on the shaft nut and the engine turns by hand, feels ok there is steady resistance, engine simply cut out from 9k rpm and refuses to start, cranks fine but wont catch, sc runs off the alternator only
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by tractorboy » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:35 pm

Are you getting a spark? When you took the plugs out did it look like there was fuel getting in?

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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by DanBass » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:47 pm

Might be worth whipping leading plugs out and turning on the starter to listen for even chuffs to check you haven't thrown a seal or anything.
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by warpc0il » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:52 pm

How is the supercharger lubricated?

Are you running an upgraded fuel pump?
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by will_sco » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:39 pm

Plugs looked fine when I pulled them, not wet. I'm going to borrow a spark plug tester tomorrow to make sure its sparking, but I think it is, and I'll see if it chuffs at the same time.

Dave the supercharger contains oil and is self contained, according to blitz it never needs changed.

Standard fuel pump.
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by JoeLanger » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:29 pm

will_sco wrote:I'm going to borrow a spark plug tester
a what? whats wrong with sparking it on a ground?

but yeah poor mans comp test and spark test would be a god place to start

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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by will_sco » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:54 pm

So it turns out I have no spark! Not sure how that happened from the belt snapping but obviously the root of the problem. I tale it there is no ecu safe mode or anything similar that is in operation with the belt going at 9k? If not I'll start with my new coils n work back as I can't see any issue with the wiring the belt would have struck.
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by warpc0il » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:27 pm

Did you check all the plugs for sparks, as only the two trailing are active when starting?

Damage to the ESS or the common earth for the coils would prevent sparks, as would a blown "engine" fuse.

Beyond that it's starts (no pun intended) to get quite complex to diagnose.
The only ECU functions that prevent sparking are the crash switch and the deflood process, i.e. the ECU is getting a full throttle input from the throttle pedal.

As an OC member you have full access to the [urlw=http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=58]Technical FAQ[/urlw] and the best place for you to start would be the [urlw=http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 58&t=41584]Service Manual - PDF Version[/urlw]

Open Section 2 and follow the diagnosis process(es) shown there.

Are you still running the original ECU on it's own or do you have another piggy-backed?
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by will_sco » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:58 pm

Cheers Dave I only checked the leading ones doh! I'll try the trailing ones tomorrow, I didnt know it was only the trailing that fired on start up, thanks.
I've got a motec unit piggybacked onto the standard ecu but wondered if any of the original functionality was retained as I run elements of both ecus.
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by warpc0il » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:14 pm

The original ECU is likely to be still handling ABS, DSC, security (alarm and immobiliser), OMP and a bunch of other secondary stuff, while the Motec will be handling fuel and sparks.

This is going to make fault-finding even more tricky....
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by Phil Bate » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:18 am

warpc0il wrote:This is going to make fault-finding even more tricky fun....
After a few seconds cranking all the plugs start firing. Was there not any fuel smell when you removed the plugs?
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by Clive » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:51 am

If the belt snapped its possible it took out the crank angle sensor or wiring, that will stop everything working

If it was me I would also really want to know why the belt snapped

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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by will_sco » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:50 am

I replaced the shaft sensor just in case, no joy, nor any smell of petrol when I pulled the plugs.
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by Phil Bate » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:09 pm

No fuel either strongly suggests an ES sensor/circuit issue. Something that should have occurred to me earlier - have you reset the ES profile memory? (at least 20 taps on brake pedal within 8 seconds of turning the key to IGN)

After that I would hook up an OBD reader and look at the live data while cranking. Observing a value for RPM or not will confirm the ES sensor either way
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by will_sco » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:06 pm

Yeah I did the 20 tap reset, my obd code reader is basic I'll see if it does rpm values whilst cranking though or acquire one that does, thanks
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Re: snapped supercharger belt now car wont start

Post by macgtech » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:18 pm

Clive wrote:If it was me I would also really want to know why the belt snapped
My thoughts exactly - what ECU setup do you have?
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