Backwoods Supercharger

Turbos? Superchargers? Step this way...
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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by boosted » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:34 am

Ironically it seems bad cars are as hard to find as good cars. Have you looked in Copart? 45 joining fee and they deliver.

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by wiggles » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:34 am

Just in case this is of any interest
Screenshot_20180920-103318.png
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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by 13Black » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:17 pm

I recall the Blitz setups being... not ideal. Willing to be told otherwise though.
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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:26 pm

I've been less than impressed by the narrow passage allowed for boost on that kit, in combintion with a sharp right angle directly by the intake - it seems to have ignored basic flow logic in favour of fitting convenience. I count no less than 4 right angle turns in the air flow. If that was a waterslide, you'd be seriously bruised when you came out the other end :)

All very well for me to say that - it might be tougher than i think - but it's already over budget - and probably needs bearings changed - might well be missing some parts as well.

But it would by and large drop straight in.......and pressurised air will ultimately take the only exit available to it. I'll think about it - thanks for the heads up.
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Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:36 am

Thinking of getting the 192. I have a 231 air intake for comparison and for my needs I think it’ll do on the most part.

I’m aware it has two missing port intake feeds, but the rest of the engine bay looks the same as far as supercharger mounting and fitment.

It’s not for tuning - just for mounting fitment.

Anyone got any comments?

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:50 pm

Are there any other differences in the engine bay between a 192 and 231?

Gearbox and engine inlet side I’m aware of - but if everything on the other side (coils, oil filter, a/c, alternator abs side of things) is the same it would get me most of the way through...

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by warpc0il » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:26 pm

Nothing physical beyond the inlet, clutch and gearbox.

All the ancillaries are the same.

1st O2 sensor is different, as is PCM (obviously)
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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:26 pm

warpc0il wrote:Nothing physical beyond the inlet, clutch and gearbox.

All the ancillaries are the same.

1st O2 sensor is different, as is PCM (obviously)
Cool think I’ll get that 192 then...

It’s still available


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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:36 pm

Negotiating pickup - getting quotes for collection.

It’s mot’ed so I could get monthly tax and day insurance and drive it home but I’ll have to get there first and it’s a good hour and a half’s drive. I worked out that’d be £130 and I reckon I can get it transported for that so it’s just how much effort I’m willing to make :D

Plus it’s got hot start issues and I bet I’d have to stop for fuel...

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by warpc0il » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:54 pm

You can often get a much cheaper quote for transport if it can be driven onto the trailer/flatbed.
Just make sure that they leave it running long enough not to flood. ;)

You can also get quotes for someone to drive it to you, on trade-plates.
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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:09 pm

Someone offered an extra 50 quid so I’m out on that one.

I’d have paid an extra 50 if it was a 231 but not for a 192

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Essex2Visuvesi » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:47 pm

Pensive wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:26 pm
I've been less than impressed by the narrow passage allowed for boost on that kit, in combintion with a sharp right angle directly by the intake - it seems to have ignored basic flow logic in favour of fitting convenience. I count no less than 4 right angle turns in the air flow. If that was a waterslide, you'd be seriously bruised when you came out the other end :)

All very well for me to say that - it might be tougher than i think - but it's already over budget - and probably needs bearings changed - might well be missing some parts as well.

But it would by and large drop straight in.......and pressurised air will ultimately take the only exit available to it. I'll think about it - thanks for the heads up.

blitz.jpg
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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by New Duke » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:02 pm

Not sure where you are with the blower. I had my bestie look at fabricating a custom screw 2.1l one for me (much cheaper than buying one.. a new one anyway) and I only pulled out before we could finalise parts/cost because I lack your technical knowledge. He can make (almost) anything and knows compressors but doesn't know the RX8. So I can't experiment and really need a ready-made kit.

Send me a PM if you want me to link you in with him. Might be worth a chat.

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:17 pm

That sounds mighty interesting; I may be in touch shortly.

Current state of affairs:

* still bidding on cheap rexys
* going to look at the the inevitables first like oil filler relocate, oil filter relocate, air intake adapter for throttle body. All relatively easy and I can 3D print test pieces myself before sending off for PEI printing or laser sintering.
* if a cheap Rex doesn’t crop up soon I’m going to perform open heart surgery on my car one weekend and stitch her back up after

That will allow be to offer up in the space and see if I really can do what I want to do. I think I can, at a 45 degree angle fit the charger in while reusing the stock engine intake. I think....

This would be so much easier with a test engine bay.

If anyone is going to the Cobham meet-up on Wednesday I’ll be going along :D

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:37 pm

Well marrying up the throttle body to the supercharger intake shouldn’t be too hard;

Unfortunately the bolt holes don’t seem to line up which is a real shame - they’re a few mm out in both x and y directions.

I don’t have a throttle body to hand but the internal diameter of the mouth of the engine air intake is slightly less than that of the supercharger inlet, so a simple step down adapter with a 45 degree rotated bolt hole offset means I can embed the nuts in the adapter and bolt the throttle body on for a pretty clean oem-ish finish. I expect the supercharger will be mounted at around 45 degrees so this _should_ mean I get an upright throttle body =D

I’m thinking of using PEI plastic on the atmosphere side of the supercharger as it can withstand 217 degrees of heat and is relatively cheap to print. If it doesn’t work out I’ll have to send it off for laser sintering.

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Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:44 pm

Image

I’ll Have to stand it off a couple of inches though, to clear the recirc valve actuator. I’ll need some extra long bolts, or a more complex adapter....


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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by warpc0il » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:52 pm

It will be cooled by the intake charge, so it just depends how hot it gets with heat soak after shut down.

Have you got an IR thermometer gun?
If not you really need to get one, as great for this sort of thing, plus brake discs, tyres, and random stuff around the home
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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:19 pm

warpc0il wrote:It will be cooled by the intake charge, so it just depends how hot it gets with heat soak after shut down.

Have you got an IR thermometer gun?
If not you really need to get one, as great for this sort of thing, plus brake discs, tyres, and random stuff around the home

Yup yup :)

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Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:02 pm

Edited.

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:43 pm

So I’ve found a 192 for 150 quid, plus transport but I’m having to hold back right now. I’d love to tell the whole story but it would be unprofessional. What I can say is the delay is not of my making - which is very very frustrating.

In the meantime this weekend will be cruise control mod and decat, and next weekend will be rear brakes and painted callipers.

Then I’m going to play fix the cracked windscreen - then I’m going to start thinking about this project again. I may do the windscreen sooner - it depends - it’s already ruined so unless it cracks where I can see it there’s little rush.

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by warpc0il » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:10 pm

I had this thought a couple of months ago but didn't have a diagram at hand that illustrated it.

The Renesis is unique among rotaries in having the "anti-wet" system that blows air under the fuel injector nozzles, to carry away an fuel that would otherwise puddle in the intake. The air feed from this comes from upstream of the throttle body. How is this impacted by FI? The system would only work if it received air at (at least) the compressor output pressure, so I assume that it would be tapped-in somewhere downstream of the turbine.
Anti-wet system.png
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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by boosted » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:16 pm

Interesting, on the lim there are 2 cap ports...what are these for? Ive used them for seafoaming in the past.

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by Pensive » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:30 pm

Sounds interesting; I assume the air simply needs to be at atmosphere instead of being at vacuum (as it would otherwise be when the throttle body closes at lift off). The rotation of the engine (intake cycle draws the air in through this port) does the rest...yes? OR the jet nozzle has a power source and it injects from atmospheric levels. Either way....

So with a supercharger the supercharger should be in recirc during vacuum - and it will surely generate it's own vacuum when it spins - keeping the recirc valve open at idle. So IMHO - there would be negligible change to this condition. After having thought about it thoroughly for all of 20 seconds.

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by StreetDragster » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:40 pm

boosted wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:16 pm
Interesting, on the lim there are 2 cap ports...what are these for? Ive used them for seafoaming in the past.

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I think these are the ports which are used in the post 2006 oil breather system

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Re: Backwoods Supercharger

Post by warpc0il » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:41 pm

On a non-FI engine, "atmospheric" is going to be higher than the standing pressure within that part of the intake, which would be at much lower pressure when the intake port is open; though there could be a momentary higher pressure wave as the inertia of the incoming charge hits a suddenly-close intake port.

However, the purpose of FI is to increase the pressure in this area to a Bar or so above atmospheric. This jet, rather than blowing air under the injector, would just be a pressure leak back to where it's connected, unless that is a higher pressure source.
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