Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by warpc0il »

Oh yes, forgot you're on coilovers.

In that case check that the ride-height rings haven't self-adjusted.

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

Ride height collars are equal height on each of the rear coilovers, so that's not the reason for my measured mismatched ride height.

Did notice a bolt had come undone on my rear strut bar (the one that attaches the bar to it's mounting bracket) which was causing that to rattle around.

Couldn't see anything else on the rear suspension that seemed obviously wrong, but I'm clearly out of my depth here, assuming I still have issues. Will drive in an hour or so and have a listen. Don't think it was the strut bar causing the clunk. but who knows could be lucky

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by Vj4sothername »

MightyCondor wrote:Ride height collars are equal height on each of the rear coilovers, so that's not the reason for my measured mismatched ride height.

Did notice a bolt had come undone on my rear strut bar (the one that attaches the bar to it's mounting bracket) which was causing that to rattle around.

Couldn't see anything else on the rear suspension that seemed obviously wrong, but I'm clearly out of my depth here, assuming I still have issues. Will drive in an hour or so and have a listen. Don't think it was the strut bar causing the clunk. but who knows could be lucky

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MightyCondor (Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:38 pm)
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by nightfire10 »

Stop teasing nigel

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by Harrizone »

It has been known for the bolts holding the brackets at the top of the coilovers to become loose which could result in the knocking.
Now a distant memory unfortunately.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

Just driven up to my parents and still have my mystery clunk

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by mrspiller »

MightyCondor wrote:Just driven up to my parents and still have my mystery clunk Image

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Check the callipers and drop links
I once had a clunk and it was the drop link just need half a turn with big bar as it had started warring


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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by Conan »

Hi Alan,
Not enough info to comment on the knock but assuming that has nothing to do with the low corner.
Lift the front hight 10 mm on the shocks mark and turn the same both sides
Lift the low corner at rear to match other rear
Don’t preload the shocks too much ( just a touch)
Try this and see what it’s like, without knowing valveing and spring rates and a good base set up from the manufacturer who probably never tested their product on an RX-8 it’s a long slow process of trial and error to set a car up correctly.
Did I mention I wasn’t a fan of Meisters on the RX-8 ;)
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by ChrisHolmes »

mrspiller wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:27 pm
MightyCondor wrote:Just driven up to my parents and still have my mystery clunk Image

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Check the callipers and drop links
I once had a clunk and it was the drop link just need half a turn with big bar as it had started warring


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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by New Duke »

Before you go taking bits apart Alan:

I was convinced early this year that one of my arch gaps was 1cm different to the others, and was suspicious of the new PZ suspension (despite it being fitted by bigpete and having been setup by Fergus). I took the car to loads of places with flat surfaces, including my immaculate garage floor, and took measurements to verify that it was the car and not my eye. Then I started investigating potential causes. Basically down the same path as you.

After lots of hair pulling I went back to Fergus and asked him to investigate. He gave me a friendly dressing down and explained my folly in assuming that any flat surface is truly flat, and that the tiniest variance in the ground will throw off ride height measurements. He knows he can accurately measure in his workshop because he has measured the elevation where each wheel sits... to silly accuracy.

Fergus was able to show that on a perfectly level floor, each of my corners was indeed perfectly level. Nothing to see here.

You might have a problem... might just be that.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

New Duke wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:25 pm
Before you go taking bits apart Alan:

I was convinced early this year that one of my arch gaps was 1cm different to the others, and was suspicious of the new PZ suspension (despite it being fitted by bigpete and having been setup by Fergus). I took the car to loads of places with flat surfaces, including my immaculate garage floor, and took measurements to verify that it was the car and not my eye. Then I started investigating potential causes. Basically down the same path as you.

After lots of hair pulling I went back to Fergus and asked him to investigate. He gave me a friendly dressing down and explained my folly in assuming that any flat surface is truly flat, and that the tiniest variance in the ground will throw off ride height measurements. He knows he can accurately measure in his workshop because he has measured the elevation where each wheel sits... to silly accuracy.

Fergus was able to show that on a perfectly level floor, each of my corners was indeed perfectly level. Nothing to see here.

You might have a problem... might just be that.

Thanks Haydn. I'm my case it was 2nd hand coilovers (although virtually brand new) fitted by me, so more scope for error there. However both left and right rear are adjusted to the exact same height (I measured the distance between the upper and lower adjustment collars with vernier calipers), so that would mean what that the car itself is uneven, or the ground is...

I had come to the same conclusion re. it not being safe to assume the I've actually measured on perfectly flat ground. I'll try a few more times, and see if I can actually manage more even readings, or at least some variation to prove the point.

Apart from this knock that I need to solve, my priority is to avoid having another trackday like Mallory where I have a car struggling for grip again. All i have actually managed to do so far is grease and reinstall my arb mounts and decide to switch back to my other track wheels for next time. I've not visited Oulton Park before, so don't know how easily I'll run into the cars limits there (not like Mallory which I've done multiple times in different cars so know what both a well setup car and myself as a driver is capable of there).

Thanks to everyone else for the advice. I'm going to check every bolt I can in search of the clunk, maybe replace the droplinks again. We'll see if it's coincidental or not whether or not that I only noticed it after doing the above works. I can sort of believe that freeing up the sway bar (if it was indeed stiff), would allow a droplink issue to shine. I have also managed to have loose brake bolts in the past, so I'm generally quite careful about that now!

Otherwise it's probably time to defer to the professionals if I can't make any progress myself....
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

...and the point and associated kudos goes to Wayne. It was the droplink, and I'm now clunk free. The difficultly of trying to sufficiently torque a nylock nut at play again, although it took a few months to loosen just a little. To everyone else, there'll be more chances to play as soon as fate dictates that my ham fisted attempts must come back to bite me again.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by mrspiller »

MightyCondor wrote:...and the point and associated kudos goes to Wayne. It was the droplink, and I'm now clunk free. The difficultly of trying to sufficiently torque a nylock nut at play again, although it took a few months to loosen just a little. To everyone else, there'll be more chances to play as soon as fate dictates that my ham fisted attempts must come back to bite me again.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

The saga continues. I got a free alignment check this morning and apparently my rear wheels have different TOE settings to each other with the o/s toeing in 5.5mm and with n/s pointing out 1.5mm. I don't know how that converts to the degrees and minutes readings that you'd normally see on a printout. Can anyone enlighten me on that? Having the rear wheels doing different things seems like the likeliest cause of my awful handling at Mallory.

Also I'm suspecting that I have some play in my steering rack. After I first went to Fergus for my alignment, the steering wheel position moved compared to when the car was on his workshop floor and I had to go back for an adjustment. It seems slightly off again to me now, but also it feels slightly sloppy to me. I'm guessing it would be wise to have this looked at before having my alignment corrected. What would the likely cause be?
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by mrspiller »

That’ll be your twitchy car then ......
You can get this done with online calculators . Pretty easy to use
1-1.5 toe in on rears is set up for track oriented car . Any more than that and you’ll scrub the inside edge away slowly


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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

So back to see Fergus today.

A quick inspection of the entire suspension:

- No play in any bushes although some are visibly showing their age
- Same comments apply to steering u-j. Not looking too pretty and would recommend changing for peace of mind, but seemingly functioning ok
- No coilover setup issues

However my alignment was massively out compared to how Fergus had set it previously. Not sure what's happened in little over 1,000 miles and 2 track days to cause that. The rear n/s especially had shifted, although the fronts had also moved apparently. Fergus was at a bit of a loss to explain this, only musing that maybe it was due to the springs on my coil overs settling down.

Now that Oulton is off, I’ll have to wait until December to see how the car is behaving. Given the time of year, I can only hope for some dry days. Tempted to book Mallory again in hope of having the best direct comparison, although with redundancy looming, maybe it’s not the most responsible decision even if I can try and justify it as a birthday present to myself given that it’s the day after….
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by warpc0il »

Any really nasty potholes in your area?
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

warpc0il wrote:Any really nasty potholes in your area?
I don't recall hitting a big one. No shortage of small ones around me though.

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by warpc0il »

In NI the policy for reducing the number of pot holes is to let them all join together until there's just a huge one....

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by New Duke »

Last time I went to have my geometry done by Fergus was only five months and 4k...ish miles after he'd previously done it. Mine had fallen way out too. Fergus assumed that I'd been hitting the big sausage kerbs on track (as if!), but no it was just because the A12 into London, and most roads we drive on, are in a terrible state.

That was what convinced me to have my geometry redone every year as part of the servicing routine. My completely unscientific theory is that the harder the suspension, the quicker it's whacked out of alignment by poorly maintained roads.

At least you know nothing's broken.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by ChrisHolmes »

I agree that hard suspension may well “knock” the eccentric cam adjusters round due to their design. When Fergus does my alignment later this month I will ask him to centre punch the subframe adjacent to the mid point large groove on the eccentric disc and then I can monitor whether it moves or not over time.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

I noticed a white pen being used to mark the positions this time

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

A house call from Luke today to swap my steering uj.

He did that quickly, but not before investigating and diagnosing another issue that was causing a squeaking noise.

Anyway Luke seems happy that my steering is lighter and moving more freely. Sadly I can't drive it at the moment to see for myself, due to spraining my knee (and gaining various other injuries) last week when the handle bar on my bike snapped while I was cycling down the hill towards my house.Image

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by New Duke »

Crikey. That happened to me on an alpine descent once, worst injuries I've had. Glad you're 'mostly' alright. Get well soon.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor »

New Duke wrote:Crikey. That happened to me on an alpine descent once, worst injuries I've had. Glad you're 'mostly' alright. Get well soon.
I think this is the most simultaneous injuries I've ever had. Fortunately mostly minor ones. Dozens of grazes and lacerations which are all healing pretty well, although suspect I may gain a few scars from this. Had a few staples removed from my chin yesterday. My limbs are mostly yellowy bruised colours. Only thing really bothering me now is my knee, which is clearly sprained pretty badly.

Given that I hit the road at well over 20mph, I'm lucky that I didn't break any bones.

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