Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

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Honkytonk
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Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Honkytonk » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:48 pm

I'm really sorry for the title, I couldn't resist.

Well, here I go. I picked up my first RX8 last Monday and am loving every minute of owning it so far. Other than it obviously having something up with the front suspension, on inspection it seemed in good mechanical condition and for the price I would have kicked myself if I hadn't gone for it (hence the shed part of the title..)

Having done about 250miles and used my first full tank of fuel I figured I should take a deep breath and delve into a proper look at what I've gotten myself into.

Initial problems/Concerns

Let's list these one at a time.

1. Limited Service History - Previous owner had the car for ~6months before selling to me. He was a Motocross guy and needed the money to get his sensible car back on the road so he could lug trailers around. Before that, it belonged to a bloke who lived in York who never sent through spare keys or service history (and also ruined the door speakers and front suspension, but more on that in a mo...) I've written off to the address (chap I purchased off was very helpful in that regard), but don't expect anything back. I have the Mazda Digital Service History up to about 40k miles, but then there's a gap up until the MOT certificate in 2018 at 69,850. The original owner purchased it from the Murray Motor Company Mazda dealer in Edinburgh. Thank you whoever you were. You chose a PZ well.

2. Front Suspension - Anyone who's seen my introductory thread will know that my front suspension has been lowered (ruined, however you want to say it) with some aftermarket lowering springs, probably rear(!)Direnza ones. Whatever they are, they ain't Bilsteins and Enkeis.

3. Rust - There are a few surface bubbles on the rear arches and bonnet lid, and below the boot brake light. These are common issues for RX8'S so I hear, but having lived most of its life in that bit of the country further up than Swindon (hereby referred to as 'The North') I am obviously concerned with the state of the underside. You lot salt your roads like they're chips up there...

4. Engine and Clutch - I know I said mechanically fine, but the engine is of course a concern with any RX8! Compounded by the lack of service history, a weird rattle in third, and also a whine from what sounds like the release bearing. Cold and hot starts straight away, no cranking. No compression test as of yet ( I know, cardinal sin), but I will get one when I take it for its airbag recall.

5. Minor niggles - aforementioned front woofers are knackered, think someone eating a microphone with a mouthful of gravel when I put talk radio on. Tweeters are fine! There's a nick in the passenger door card from some bloody 2x4 or something. No mats other than the drivers. One of my PZ Hubcaps is missing. And that's about it!

Will follow this post up with a picture heavy one of what I found rootling about under the car today.

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Have a gander at my slightly rusty pride and joy in
The P-Shed Project Thread

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by PeteH » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:02 pm

And so it begins.....

Just for future reference, the bonnet is aluminium, so it doesn't rust. It can corrode a bit if the paint is damaged, but it's usually much less of a concern than steel panels.
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Honkytonk » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:06 pm

Okay, so I got the P-Shed (Is that its actual name now? That might be its actual name now) up on some ramps today. Due to the lowered stance, that was a bit of a slow, careful careful job...

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Here's the initial problem with the suspension. A crudely drawn body line shows you quite obviously.

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A slight slope also shows it;

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One of the Pro's of this car was the excellent condition of the paintwork. A White Range Rover driven by some blonde idiot in the middle of the road meant I had to dump it into a hedge however, so now I have scratches to deal with (I'm having a moan, but go drive your Range Rover in the ditch)

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Wheels are also in pretty good nick, although one of my rear's missing an OZ centre cap. This is the front, just showing you how high the wheels sit in the arches...

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Here's the bootlid, showing the rust.

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Sorry, I've just got to take a step back and admire how handsome this thing is.

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Okay, under we go. Front wheel well, Driver's side. Nice Bilstein shocks, rubbish springs. Need replace. Also check out the steering rods! How low do you want to go.

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Rear suspension. Bit rusty, but at least they're original, I see you prodrive logo!

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Sump's good! Hallelujah. Sump's good.

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Lambda sensor was replaced in middle of Feb, so if I don't knock it off before I get the suspension sorted I'm good.

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My CAT carpet is coming loose, oh noes!

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Back box is ok, but I will be keeping an eye on. I reckon I can clean the tips off with some wire wool to bring those prodrive symbols back, but we'll see.

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And here comes the rust. Luckily, mostly surface, but it did make my heart thud a couple of times. However, having explored it thoroughly (with a hammer of course), there's very few structural issues. Going to have to have a think about what to do with it though. I'm open to suggestions, thoughts, if there's something you guys have noticed, please, let me know!

Image

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Have a gander at my slightly rusty pride and joy in
The P-Shed Project Thread

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by warpc0il » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:14 pm

Those Lassa Phenoma tyres get very mixed reviews on a variety of cars, though I've not been able to find one good review for them on an 8
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by goodeggbob » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:18 pm

hi mate,are you sure its a prodrive back box? those tips should be stainless so shouldnt rust like that. also i would be looking into those lower cill edges thoroughly as you may be able to catch it before its to late. how bad are the rear arches,as i have found a way into the back of them for rust proofing :thumleft:
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Nickp47 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:27 pm

Was going to ask about the back box too, iirc the correct one has a more oval shaped tip? The way the one in the pics has rusted makes it seem more like an aftermarket replacement for the standard one.

That aside, It is good to see the car is now in the hands of someone who is going to look after it properly :thumright:

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by goodeggbob » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:31 pm

that rear cill,last pic,doesnt look to good,i would be looking at that pretty sharpish if i were you,before it goes any deeper,rob.

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Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by GreySilver Beast » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:32 pm

Look forward to seeing what you do to this car in due course =D>
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Honkytonk » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:00 am

warpc0il wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:14 pm
Those Lassa Phenoma tyres get very mixed reviews on a variety of cars, though I've not been able to find one good review for them on an 8
All I can say is I won't be adding one. They were replaced in Feb by previous owner. Frankly with the suspension as is I doubt I can give a sensible review of any tires, I might as well put supermarket trolley casters under the chin and steer with a tiller.
goodeggbob wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:18 pm
hi mate,are you sure its a prodrive back box? those tips should be stainless so shouldnt rust like that. also i would be looking into those lower cill edges thoroughly as you may be able to catch it before its to late. how bad are the rear arches,as i have found a way into the back of them for rust proofing :thumleft:
Nope, it is not. Can't believe I didn't see whilst staring at it, but the tips are completely the wrong shape aren't they? The proper ones have a slanted ends as well. #-o

Arches are in about the same nick as the rest of the underbody, surface rust but structually sound
goodeggbob wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:31 pm
that rear cill,last pic,doesnt look to good,i would be looking at that pretty sharpish if i were you,before it goes any deeper,rob.
Yeah, it kind of looks like the crimp I presume they put in the bottom of the panels has failed and it's started delaminating(? Correct me please!). :shock:
Nickp47 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:27 pm
...That aside, It is good to see the car is now in the hands of someone who is going to look after it properly :thumright:
Don't overestimate my abilities...

So, having had an evening to mull over in my head what's up with the thing, I'll go through my inital concerns in order of what I think I need to deal with;

1. Front Suspension - For my own sanity and the sake of PZ's everywhere, this has to go. Perhaps it's my coming from the notoriously well regarded Drivers car of the Vectra B, but the handling, especially bearing in mind the ditchfinders it's wearing, doesn't seem terribly compromised. However, with a whole week's familiarity with the car now, I'm starting to notice that when you get onto a slightly rougher B road, you focus on not veering across the lane whenever you hit a bump :pale:

So, current plan is to replace both fronts with brand new PZ sets from club stock, but depending on the wait I may have to get some temporary standard ones (~£40 pre-loved according to ebay), just to alleviate the mind numbing re-routing of myself around anything higher than a gnats arse I might scrape the nose on or annihilate my sump with. And on the plus side it'll mean the brand spankers I get will go on smooth as silk because I'll be used to the job and will have cleaned everything up.

2. Rust - Hoo, boy, this is bigger than I initially thought.. My war chest does not extend to a full, perfect restoration (at least not for the time being). I'm going to have to go and talk to my friendly local garage and see how much chin stroking and sucking of teeth they do. Short term, I'm thinking wire brush on a drill to take the surface stuff off, shove on some rust-prevention paint, then treat with waxinol. I know it's not a great or permanent fix, but it's something, and should keep it from getting any worse(Probably? [-o< ). Any recommendations would be appreciated.

3. Limited Service History - Sod all I can do about that. It's getting a fluid and ignition do over at some point in the very near future. The oil is quite clean whenever I dip it so that's good I suppose.... :thumright:

4. Engine and Clutch - Clutch, well that'll go when it goes. I'm not worrying about it right now. Works fine, no slippage, just that release bearing whine at idle. Will be getting a compression test done once it goes in for its airbag recall with Mazda, presuming they don't charge me too much. How much is too much for a compression test? Anyone?

5. Minor Niggles - oh, the door card's £20 and if I'm bored and the weather gets a bit better I might sort the speakers, but at the moment I'll just listen to the engine and try not to fret over my underbody. The missus has offered to buy me a new set of mats.

I should also sort out that backbox once I've got the suspension and rust and ignition done. Now I know it's wrong it makes me unhappy...

On a side note, got my first JDM wave today (From a white S2000). It's nice being part of a larger community.

Now, I'm going to finish my beer and try not to have red and orange flakey nightmares.
Have a gander at my slightly rusty pride and joy in
The P-Shed Project Thread

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by mi60o0 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:35 am

you are going to be busy/
Bilt-Hamber products are spot on for rust treatment.
cordles 4" grinder is handy tool to have with wire brush attachment googles and mask.


Suspension wise you can find in the club shop brand new ones for sale. if out of budged atm you can stick OEM suspension I know you lose the beauty of the pz but will set you down as 50-60 quit temporary fix until you can put nice suspension in.

exhaust Pettit is lovely RB is lovely HKS I MY favourite by long shot but not practical.

decat is a must imo
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by casey » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:41 am

Good to see you are making an objective appraisal of your PZ. Ref the suspension units, they are in stock in Leeds and the Club Shopkeeper (Ian) has just sorted out the logistics and costs of shipping/insurance. Nearly there, so I'd suggest waiting for the new parts. They will transform the cars handling, with some decent tyres from where you are now!
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Nickp47 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:54 am

With regard comp test, £40-£70 is about going rate from a specialist. I have seen a few examples of main dealers charging twice that for one and then providing only a single result for each rotor which is, of course, pretty much a waste of money so it is worth checking with your dealer that they know how to do it properly. Or go straight to a specialist.

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Honkytonk » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:36 am

mi60o0 wrote:you are going to be busy/
Bilt-Hamber products are spot on for rust treatment.
cordles 4" grinder is handy tool to have with wire brush attachment googles and mask.

...

exhaust Pettit is lovely RB is lovely HKS I MY favourite by long shot but not practical.

decat is a must imo
So grind off the surface rust, then treat with Hydrate-80?

I don't mind getting dirty and doing the work, just need somewhere to do it, which I don't have access to currently. I keep my ramps at my mum's and my stepdad is a tree surgeon so with all the wind ATM the drive is unavailable for the short term as it's covered in timber!

Again, may have a chat with friendly local garage and see what they can do. We've got a couple of restoration/accident repair bodyshops locally as well, no harm in getting a quote, although I'm not expecting that to be cheap...

As exhausts go I'm going to leave this one on for the short term. I want to go back to stock where I can with the car and Prodrive ones appear to be about £200 on eBay. Might change my mind as I'd like to hear what the others sound like - may well be a case of wandering around a club meet and having a listen... I will decat at some point but for now I'm happy with it as is.

I knew this wasn't going to be a perfect car and needed some TLC. I keep telling myself that. Just hope I can save enough of it to make this all worthwhile!

And if I can't, well it's got a years MOT left and I'll just drive it then see where we are. It still amazes me it passed its last three MOT's virtually spotlessly.

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by goodeggbob » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:59 am

hi mate,what is your long term plan with the car? if its a keeper then my order of progress would be suspension,simply to keep it driveable, thus keeping you interested, followed by rust,rust and rust. all other mods would be a waste of money come mot time. if on the other hand you just want to thrash it round for 12mths and then get rid then definetly suspension first. i may be a bit old fashioned,but if what you bolt mods to is not sound,then in my opinion dont bother. either way enjoy the car,but just spend a moment thinking of the ultimate goal,good luck,rob.

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Honkytonk » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:15 am

goodeggbob wrote:hi mate,what is your long term plan with the car? if its a keeper then my order of progress would be suspension,simply to keep it driveable, thus keeping you interested, followed by rust,rust and rust. all other mods would be a waste of money come mot time. if on the other hand you just want to thrash it round for 12mths and then get rid then definetly suspension first. i may be a bit old fashioned,but if what you bolt mods to is not sound,then in my opinion dont bother. either way enjoy the car,but just spend a moment thinking of the ultimate goal,good luck,rob.
My goal is to get it as far back to factory condition as I can. So no major mods or anything, just restoring what is there and replacing with correct components. Only thing I was planning to change from stock is adding a sohn adapter for longevity of the engine.

I didn't come into this thinking it was going to be easy (for the price I paid for everything I'm still happy even with the issues), I'm still excited and looking forward to getting started on working on it.

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by goodeggbob » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:01 am

thats good news,it sounds like the car has found the right person then. if it were me i would be getting the bodywork sorted first,especially as dry warm weather is on the horizon. once that is sorted and rust proofed,everything else is simply bolt on,fixable,and you should get a sense of security,knowing that everything is being attached to a sound structure. all the best with this and keep us posted. there is also a club meet in castle combe in june,which i imagine is fairly close to you. there will be a mine of information and knowledge there,and well worth attending,all the best,rob.
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by warpc0il » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:46 pm

Honkytonk wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:36 am
my stepdad is a tree surgeon so with all the wind ATM the drive is unavailable for the short term as it's covered in timber!
Tell me about it, we just had an 80ft scots pine come down and get hung in the side of a 30ft bay tree.

I'm heading for the shower, as I've now got sticky pine sawdust in my hair and every crevice :shock:
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Lemon » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:33 pm

Honkytonk if you need a Compression Test doing in Salisbury give Tim over at RX Motors a shout, he's based in Salisbury, just near ASDA.

£25 is what he charges from what i recall.
Thanks, Stu

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Honkytonk » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:40 pm

Lemon wrote:Honkytonk if you need a Compression Test doing in Salisbury give Tim over at RX Motors a shout, he's based in Salisbury, just near ASDA.

£25 is what he charges from what i recall.
Cheers, I was thinking about giving RX Motors a bell anyway! They're not far away from me, so would make any works conveniently walkable. Proper luxury with rotary specialists so far apart.

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Lemon » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:42 pm

Honkytonk wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:40 pm
Lemon wrote:Honkytonk if you need a Compression Test doing in Salisbury give Tim over at RX Motors a shout, he's based in Salisbury, just near ASDA.

£25 is what he charges from what i recall.
Cheers, I was thinking about giving RX Motors a bell anyway! They're not far away from me, so would make any works conveniently walkable. Proper luxury with rotary specialists so far apart.

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bought my second car from him, he's honest, does good work and cheap (and not in a bad way).
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Thanks, Stu

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Honkytonk » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:06 pm

Dropped the P-shed off with Tim at RX Motors tonight for him to run a compression test on tomorrow. Apart from one hesitation tonight when I manouvered it into his forecourt (always when you get the car to the garage...) its been starting fine, so we'll find out if my decision that the engine was in good nick when I purchased it was right or not.

As an aside, his place is a fascinating goldmine of RX'S! He must have almost a dozen in various states of repair in a *very* small space. Was busy revving the nuts off of a race-ready 7 when I arrived, and turned around with a big smile on his face.

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Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by GreySilver Beast » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:11 pm

Know Tim very well and is a very nice guy who knows his stuff =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Honkytonk » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:25 pm

So, compression results are in, and it's a 6.2, which is not as bad as I thought it might be. Not too bad for nearly 80k!

Got a bottle of cataclean on its way, and am planning an ignition overhaul, so it should keep on ticking for a while. Now its just rust and suspension to deal with.Image

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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by Scartlead » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:17 am

That's decent compression results. You should have many miles of beeps ahead, though ideally 250rpm is the ideal figure for measuring compression.

Depending on how far you want to go on body work,rust underneath etc, in my own case if it could be removed easy enough then it was. It's the only way to really do it right and in my case was to bathe the parts to remove rust and prime/paint them and refit.
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Re: Honkytonk's Black P-Shed

Post by warpc0il » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:35 am

The results must be "normalised" to 250rpm to be meaningful in absolute terms.

There are apps and speadsheets (none of which i have access to while standing out here) that will do the maths for you.

The variation on the rear isn't ideal.
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