Project N/A power Target 280+ HP

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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

Well I have pm’d Phil to see if he can help out at all.
In the meantime I have put the screw adjuster in the throttle pedal so at least now it doesn’t stall at every junction. It has also solved the brake servo problem so double win!
I have just been out for a good thrash and am please to report that it goes well. Lots of extra urge above 8,000 rpm pulling strongly to 9,500 rpm.
The exhaust is a lot quieter than last time so I shouldn’t get any problems on track days and I won’t go deafer than I already am!
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by ChrisHolmes »

At the risk of repeating myself.....Mallory this Thursday?
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

ChrisHolmes wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:59 pm
At the risk of repeating myself.....Mallory this Thursday?
Working I’m afraid Chris.
When it was first mentioned I didn’t realise it was during the week.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by ChrisHolmes »

Thought that might be the case, not to worry. Good to read that the car seems liveable with. I bet it sounds amazing.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by 13Black »

There is a map in Mazdaedit that is basically: for any given throttle pedal position, how much should I open the throttle plate?

It shouldn't be hard to get some data for how much throttle the engine likes to idle at, and then just map that for the 0% pedal position.

So basically the same workaround, without the physical screw.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by Conan »

I was going to suggest you Nick as possible the closest
Do you have the capability to do it Nick ?
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by 13Black »

I had a quick go before via another approach that didn't work out reliable enough, without thinking about the method mentioned above, and ended up putting it back to the factory map.

I think Carl at RRP would be better suited to fine tuning it via his postal mapping package though - they've had to sort their peripheral build after all so why reinvent the wheel etc. :thumright:
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by Conan »

Thanks for the explanation :thumleft:
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by Phil Bate »

Idle is best adjusted by altering the target idle tables. There are several for different conditions so it's more than likely just a case of raising the lowest values if it's stalling when dropping to 790/810. If you prop the throttle pedal I would expect the PCM to eventually ignore its input if you didn't touch it for a minute or so.

Has Carl done any work on the PCM? He always used to be completely against mapping the standard system but perhaps he's relented and uses MazdaEdit these days.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

Phil Bate wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:59 pm
Idle is best adjusted by altering the target idle tables. There are several for different conditions so it's more than likely just a case of raising the lowest values if it's stalling when dropping to 790/810. If you prop the throttle pedal I would expect the PCM to eventually ignore its input if you didn't touch it for a minute or so.

Has Carl done any work on the PCM? He always used to be completely against mapping the standard system but perhaps he's relented and uses MazdaEdit these days.
You are right Phil in that after a while even with the artificially propped open throttle it does eventually die if left idling.

I don’t think Carl has done anything on the programming side and such as things are I am very unlikely to find out now as well.

Thanks for the offer of help :thumleft:
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

I made the mistake of driving with my shorts on yesterday and burnt my leg on the transmission tunnel.
What is the best material to put on the exhaust side to try and reflect the heat away?
Last edited by V8 Power on Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by 13Black »

As long as it doesn't touch the exhaust itself.

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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

Thank’s Nick
Will have a search.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

I’m off to meet up with Carl Ryan on the 18th to do some live mapping so hopefully will have some progress.
Thanks to Phil as well for your input.

Getting there....
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

Well unfortunately things have descended to a new low.
I requested via text a receipt for the work done and a warranty letter to cover stated work.
No reply
I then sent Carl a text informing him that my car was running well at high revs but that it would not tickover and that this has caused a low brake vacuum resulting in difficulty pulling up at junctions. I informed him that this meant the work was not complete and contrary to what he told me. I.e. “Your car is finished and does not stall”
I therefore stated that I would consider my options that could mean taking legal action.

Yesterday I recieved a registered letter from Carl that is basically a complete work of fiction.

He has accused me of sending rude and abusive messages. :^o Absolutely not the case. I have been incredibly polite with no swearing or abuse. I have been firm in demanding a completion date but that is all.

He has accused me of bullying him, lambasting him and threatening him. :^o Absolutely not the case in any shape or form.

He has stated that he informed me the car would require me to drop a gear at junctions and make more vacuum and I had agreed I was fine with this. Absolutely not the case. :^o The tickover was one of the main things I asked to be sorted out hence the diy screw in the throttle pedal.

He has accused me of wrecking the first engine by taking it to Rotary Revs for the rolling road day when I knew there was a problem with it. :^o The problem was diagnosed at Rotary Revs and he knew I was going there because he wanted to go as well but was committed to helping Clive on a race day.

He has stated that the original warranty is void because Rotary Revs increased the rev limit. :^o Carl was the one during the rolling road day via a phone call who said to increase the rev limit!

He sums up by saying I won’t be getting a warranty

Carl has decended from being disorganised and a bit of a fantasist to being an out and out liar. That is a term I have very rarely used about anyone and do not use lightly.

He has also greatly offended me by making such false accusations.
Last edited by V8 Power on Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by Lemon »

oh dear...

things don't seem to be going very well for Carl do they?

you said before that you'd kept copies of all you communications didn't you?
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by Rotary Potato »

Wow.

That's an awful lot on top of everything else. I don't know if it's possible for things to end well from here, but I hope you can get to the best outcome possible.

Thank you for sharing.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

Yes Stu kept all texts etc.

Huw
Its not ended well at all. All because after 9 months of excuse after excuse I said my patience had run out and I wanted a completion date.
Where before I sort of accepted the reasons I now know it was all just excuses to fob me off so he could get on with other jobs that would earn money.
Hopefully once it is set up correctly on the ECU side it will run well and I can just get on enjoying it.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by goodeggbob »

hi mate ,this is a real shame.it is very unfortunate when comms between two gentlemen break down like this.i had a similar experience with a recent respray,paid up front for a mate and ended up ok eventually but it took 18 months to complete.how well did you know the rebuilder before,was he a mate? i really hope you get this sorted at least mechanically.as for the warranty,given the situation,do you really think it would be honoured even if you got one. personally i think that when you get it driveable and start enjoying it the past hassle will slip away. all the best,rob.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

Cheers Rob
You are right, it is all a bit raw at the moment though.
He did a rebuild for me in the past and that went ok, a few delays but nothing to serious.

Onwards!
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by SeriousSam »

Really sorry to hear this Graham, I hope the build itself lives up to Carl's usual standards even if the mapping is incomplete and the customer service has gone. Get it to Carl Ryan, see what he can do with the map to try and get it sorted, hopefully by the time you're done you'll have yourself a properly sorted car, especially if you can get the air con and brakes to work all of the time as well. Is everything else on the car set to support the engine? Cooling I know was an issue with my first rebuild, and yours is far more highly-strung than mine would have been.

Something's gone really very wrong at Hayward's of late, this is the second major build for an RX8OC member that's taken far too long and not been 100% when delivered. I do hope Carl can get it sorted, his reputation for build quality will stand for nothing if the service and delivery timescales aren't up to snuff.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by goodeggbob »

thats the spirit,get it running right asap so that you havnt got time to dwell on the past,then simply enjoy it. :thumright:
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by 13Black »

I recall when I first saw the car probably over 2 years ago that you stuck up for Carl amid some negativity surrounding them at the time while they were moving premises.

It's upsetting that it appears he's turned his back on you and the car after your support.

In my opinion it's irrelevant what a company's past is or what they -can- achieve, it's what they actually deliver now that matters. It appears that they're way past their best now in terms of what your can expect from them.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by V8 Power »

OK putting all the other stuff to one side I had chance today to take it for a spin.
As I am not sure where I am with running in and the best I can tell from mileage is that it has about 300 miles on it since rebuild.
I am taking it generally quite easy but with the odd foray into high revs as has already been done at Haywards.

It does pull very well at the high end of rev range and also revs cleanly with no flat spots. It is a bit flat low down as to be expected with a dual PP.
My throttle pedal screw mod has made it a lot safer with no stalling or loss of brake servo.

The sound it makes is akin to a two stroke motorbike rising to a full on howl at high revs.
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Re: Hayward project N/A power Target 280+ HP

Post by ChrisHolmes »

Something good to read at last which is encouraging and must make you feel a little less stressed.
Rotary History;

Sep 2005-Aug 2006 EO55 XOL VR 231 New
Oct 2014-Mar 2019 OE06 EWJ VR 231
Jan 2019-Jun 2020 T200 CAD Orange SC 231
Feb 2020-May 2023 RR54 AJR VR 231 Modified for Track
Oct 2020-Mar 2021 YA56 EUE Copper Red Nemesis
Jun 2022-Apr 2023 TN07 JHD KURO Resurrected
Jun 2023-Jan2024 OV09 BFF Sparkling Black R3
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