PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

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PhilR
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PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilR » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:45 am

The car is a 2004 Titanium Grey 231, it has only just reached 50,000 miles and had full Mazda service history. It is totally original with only a Parrot hands free kit fitted by a previous owner. I purchased the car in November 2011 and it has been an amazing car up until about a month ago when it started to develop the dreaded hot start issue, I've done the usual plugs, leads, coils and it already has the up-rated starter motor, so I decided to carry out my first engine rebuild.
I will not be posting 100's of photo's of the rebuild, just photo's of how i'm getting on, and the problem's I encounter along the way. It will be more of a timeline that i can look back upon and may be interesting to a few of you out there. It will then hopefully progress into a few Mods, I've never really been into car moding but i have been getting a few ideas on here!!

I started on the 24 March and this was the progress (not much I know).
P1030017 (800x450).jpg
P1030017 (800x450).jpg (128.35 KiB) Viewed 2840 times
Easter has now been and gone but it did allow me a couple of days to finally get on with this.
P1030021 (800x450).jpg
P1030021 (800x450).jpg (128.28 KiB) Viewed 2840 times
P1030024 (450x800).jpg
P1030024 (450x800).jpg (117.69 KiB) Viewed 2840 times
The engine is finally out of the car and on the stand, I will post some more pics later, this will give my knuckles some time to heal from the problematic removal!!
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Build thread Pages 1-3 engine rebuild, Pages 4-6 other mods
No1 - Titanium Grey (original and still the best)
No2 - Lightning Yellow with yellow and black interior (sold)
No3 - Nordic Green (scrapped)

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilR » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:59 am

I only seem to be able to attach 3 photo's to my first post, so I have added another to attach a couple more.
This is the engine finally fitted to the stand, it needed a bit of modifying but it now fits nicely.
P1030025 (800x450).jpg
P1030025 (800x450).jpg (109.43 KiB) Viewed 2833 times
Due to a serious lack of space in my garage and a sloping drive I made some wooden garage extenders from some spare 9" x 3" timber i had left over from the last house extension, they actually worked a treat and allowed enough space to remove the engine.
PICT1010 (1024x768) (800x600).jpg
PICT1010 (1024x768) (800x600).jpg (138.57 KiB) Viewed 2833 times
I am hoping to strip the engine down to the main block today so I will hopefully have an update tonight.

I have now gone as far as I can with the engine strip down, almost all of the bolt on pieces have been removed. I am now waiting far the 54mm & 19mm sockets to arrive and i need to make the flywheel locking plate, I will have to wait until I am back at work next week to get it welded up (I don't think my welding will be strong enough!).
So here it is almost to the short block.
P1030051 (800x450).jpg
P1030051 (800x450).jpg (98.88 KiB) Viewed 2767 times
I now have a mountain of cleaning to keep me busy for the next few days, I'm also debating painting the engine but I can't decide on a colour to go with. I want to keep it subtle so probably a gloss black with the rotor housing something different, any suggestions??
When I get more time later I will add some details of the problems I encountered and would I do it again, Hmmmmmm.
Thanks for reading

Phil
Last edited by PhilR on Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Build thread Pages 1-3 engine rebuild, Pages 4-6 other mods
No1 - Titanium Grey (original and still the best)
No2 - Lightning Yellow with yellow and black interior (sold)
No3 - Nordic Green (scrapped)

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by Phil Bate » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:24 am

Excellent work Phil. What trouble did you have getting the block out?
I will not be posting 100's of photo's of the rebuild
We want 100s of photos!



PS when you attach pics instead of linking them you can only do 3 per post

Phil
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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by kopite72 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:04 pm

Love these projects,only wish I had the know how to do the same(not tht mine needs it but y'all now what I mean) good stuff phil keep us updated and keep the pics coming!!

Ian
PLAN...RR HB OR FB PLATINUM REBUILD
FULL RESPRAY

DONE...
FULL MZ CUSTOMS KIT
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JAPSPEED DROPLINKS
FULL ALLOY REFURB
RR D585 COILs
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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by Delanor » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:23 pm

Good work -I like the garage extender just goes to show a bit of thought and you can overcome a lot of problems I have rebuilt several piston engines but never done a Rotary (yet!) but it looks like you are going the right way about it.

Keep us posted on your findings.

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by Shagrington » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:49 pm

=D> Well done Phil and good luck ... and 100s of photos isn't a bad thing. :wink:
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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilR » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:49 pm

Thanks for the comments guys, I already have hundreds of photo's but most of them are just of pipes, cable connections and how to put it all back together, so nothing really exciting.
I basically used the DIY engine removal from Bulldog, the only thing I think that's missing is what to do with the oil cooler pipe that connects to the oil filter, I left mine in the engine bay but it was difficult to separate from the engine wiring and got in the way when removing the engine. Next time (if there ever is) I would split it under the front cross member and remove the pipe with the engine.
The biggest problem I had was splitting the exhaust manifold from the cat, although the bolts weren't rusty and I soaked them in release fluid I couldn't budge them. Working off axle stands gives such little room, I ended up cutting 2 off and drilling the nut off the last one, I would definatley recommend getting a garage to remove them before and fitting new bolts just nipped up, I never want to see another exhaust pipe!!
The electrical connections on the gear box are also damn near impossible to split, why Mazda didn't put a large plug & socket on the top of the engine i'll never know, I am debating cutting the loom and installing one (I nearly chopped the loom in desperation).
And finally the engine to gearbox bolts are nigh on impossible to undo, I used Ben's trick of several extension bars, 2 knuckles and a lot of patients. I am however going to try to make something to aid the refitting, I can't face spending another afternoon led under the car trying to refit them!!
I hope this doesn't put anyone off attempting it themselves, but other than that it went pretty good, with the experience I have now I think it would be much easier.
If you have any questions please feel free to ask, but I'm a million miles away from being any kind of expert, after all what do Electricians know about these things.

Thanks again for reading (sorry no more photo's yet)

Phil
Build thread Pages 1-3 engine rebuild, Pages 4-6 other mods
No1 - Titanium Grey (original and still the best)
No2 - Lightning Yellow with yellow and black interior (sold)
No3 - Nordic Green (scrapped)

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by Bulldog » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:58 pm

Great stuff Phil

I hope all of the engine parts are reusable when you split the block

I have just managed to kill another engine so I am going to be building another engine hopefully in time for me to drive down to Japfest
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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by kopite72 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:51 pm

Good stuff:-) if it was me I'd go for red housings and black everything else,it would really "pop"

Ian
PLAN...RR HB OR FB PLATINUM REBUILD
FULL RESPRAY

DONE...
FULL MZ CUSTOMS KIT
MILLTEK CATBACK
JAPSPEED DROPLINKS
FULL ALLOY REFURB
RR D585 COILs
6000K HID KIT
TINTS
20MIL SPACERS
PROJECT THREAD....http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 04&t=59971

LOOKED AFTER BY THE FANTASTIC CREW AT ROTARY REVS
LOVING DORITOS SINCE 1991

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilR » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:23 am

Bulldog - I am hopeful the internals are good and it just needs new seals, the oil left in the sump looked quite good, no signs of metallic particles but I would agree the oil needs changing more often than yearly. Good luck with your rebuild but I'm guessing you've done it before.

Kopite - would your colour choice have anything to do with your name??

Cheers

Phil
Build thread Pages 1-3 engine rebuild, Pages 4-6 other mods
No1 - Titanium Grey (original and still the best)
No2 - Lightning Yellow with yellow and black interior (sold)
No3 - Nordic Green (scrapped)

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by kopite72 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:07 am

Lol Phil I actually never even thought about that would you believe!! Reason I suggested red was I saw one on bens site(rotary revs) and it looked the dogs danglies:-)

Ian
PLAN...RR HB OR FB PLATINUM REBUILD
FULL RESPRAY

DONE...
FULL MZ CUSTOMS KIT
MILLTEK CATBACK
JAPSPEED DROPLINKS
FULL ALLOY REFURB
RR D585 COILs
6000K HID KIT
TINTS
20MIL SPACERS
PROJECT THREAD....http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 04&t=59971

LOOKED AFTER BY THE FANTASTIC CREW AT ROTARY REVS
LOVING DORITOS SINCE 1991

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilMac » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:56 am

good luck with this - I like these threads but I have long since lost my desire to sacrifice knuckles etc to the god of immovable nuts ;-)

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilR » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:54 am

Time for an update.
The 54mm socket finally arrived Friday and I found some time to make the flywheel locking tool. I had no problem getting the 54mm nut off several really hard blows with a lump hammer on the breaker bar and it was loose, the 19mm however needed some persuasion with a 6 foot scaffold tube!
P1030090 (800x450).jpg
Home made locking tool
P1030090 (800x450).jpg (93.48 KiB) Viewed 2604 times
The flywheel was also very tight and I didn't want to risk damaging it so the locking tool got a modification and turned into a flywheel pulling tool. I applied a good amount of tension to the center bolt and a gentle tap with a soft faced hammer and hey presto, one loose flywheel (don't forget to leave the nut on, I just managed to catch mine!)
P1030095 (800x450).jpg
Locking tool / flywheel puller.
P1030095 (800x450).jpg (99.98 KiB) Viewed 2604 times
The moment of truth finally arrived, time to split the block and pray I've caught it early enough to save any major damage, this is the initial look inside.
P1030108 (800x450).jpg
Looking pretty good.
P1030108 (800x450).jpg (139.81 KiB) Viewed 2604 times
The second rotor and housing are pretty much the same as this one.
Build thread Pages 1-3 engine rebuild, Pages 4-6 other mods
No1 - Titanium Grey (original and still the best)
No2 - Lightning Yellow with yellow and black interior (sold)
No3 - Nordic Green (scrapped)

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilR » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:37 am

This is the completely stripped engine in all it's glory, I know there are 100's of photo's of these but it never ceases to amaze me how little there is to them, and besides that it's my first attempt at this and I'm pretty please I've got this far!
P1030112 (800x450).jpg
Stripped engine
P1030112 (800x450).jpg (102.29 KiB) Viewed 2601 times
Before anyone comments, it's not in our kitchen, it's in my Portacabin in the garden.

So what have I found?
The Apex seals are well below spec, the thinnest measured 3.82mm with the largest at 4.02mm, this hopefully is the reason for the hot start issues. It may have been a blessing in disguise, although I didn't think that at the time because both stationary bearings are showing copper on the surfaces.
The front bearing is by far the worse, well over a 1/3rd of the surface is down to the copper but it looks like I may have caught it early enough.
P1030114 (800x450).jpg
Front stationary bearing.
P1030114 (800x450).jpg (84.93 KiB) Viewed 2601 times
The rear bearing is in a better condition, at first I thought it was O.K. but on closer inspection it also has small patches of copper beginning to show. The photo doesn't really show the wear but it's there.
P1030117 (800x450).jpg
Rear stationary bearing
P1030117 (800x450).jpg (95.57 KiB) Viewed 2601 times
The shaft looks in pretty good condition, the only slight concern is the front bearing surface, whilst there is no major damage it won't take alot of wear to cause a problem. Hopefully next week I'll mic up the bearing surfaces and run a DTI over them.
The Rotor housings initially look good but I'll need to give them a good clean and try to work out whether they are any good, I'm praying they are.
I've now got another mountain of cleaning to keep me busy.
Thanks again for reading.
Phil
Build thread Pages 1-3 engine rebuild, Pages 4-6 other mods
No1 - Titanium Grey (original and still the best)
No2 - Lightning Yellow with yellow and black interior (sold)
No3 - Nordic Green (scrapped)

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by MARKTHOMASBRAND » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:38 am

Great pics Phil and good job so far =D>

My front bearing was even worse than that and the rear was bad too #-o

The eccentric shaft was toast due to this.....hopefully yours may be ok [-o<

PS: Ben rebuilt my engine but I have the bearings as a souvenir and saw the carnage on the eccentric shaft when I went to pick the car up.

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by Bulldog » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:09 am

Good stuff mate :)

I would certainly press in new bearings to the gears and the rotors while youve got the engine in bits
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More info in my project thread

Worry about your character, not your reputation. Your character is who you are, and your reputation is who people think you are.

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilR » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:10 pm

Cleaning, cleaning, cleaning that's all I seem to have done recently! I have got away lightly with the engine all the main parts are re-usable (I think), It will need all new bearings and a full rebuild kit but everything else has survived, I guess that's mainly because I took it off the road as soon as the hot start issue began.
Here is a couple of photo's of the carbon build up in the engine.
P1030126 (800x603).jpg
Before cleaning (exhaust port).
P1030126 (800x603).jpg (119.41 KiB) Viewed 1355 times
P1030127 (800x540).jpg
After cleaning.
P1030127 (800x540).jpg (124.38 KiB) Viewed 1355 times
P1030119 (800x450).jpg
Rotors, before & after cleaning.
P1030119 (800x450).jpg (93.63 KiB) Viewed 1355 times
I've also been cleaning and painting the front subframe, it was a bit rusty around the edges so I decided it would be a good time to clean it back and paint it. I'll post a photo when it's finished but it's just fresh black paint (nothing exciting).
I now need to consider what else needs doing while the engine is out, my list so far is:-
Clutch
Sohn adapter
Gear box and Diff oil change
Any other sensible suggestions?

Thanks again for reading

Phil
Build thread Pages 1-3 engine rebuild, Pages 4-6 other mods
No1 - Titanium Grey (original and still the best)
No2 - Lightning Yellow with yellow and black interior (sold)
No3 - Nordic Green (scrapped)

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by kopite72 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:30 pm

Wow alot of carbon build up on the rotor but you've done a great job in cleaning it,I wonder if premixing with protek or motul would have helped in this case?think ill start premixing soon!! Great thread looking forward to the progress reports:-)
PLAN...RR HB OR FB PLATINUM REBUILD
FULL RESPRAY

DONE...
FULL MZ CUSTOMS KIT
MILLTEK CATBACK
JAPSPEED DROPLINKS
FULL ALLOY REFURB
RR D585 COILs
6000K HID KIT
TINTS
20MIL SPACERS
PROJECT THREAD....http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/vi ... 04&t=59971

LOOKED AFTER BY THE FANTASTIC CREW AT ROTARY REVS
LOVING DORITOS SINCE 1991

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by Bulldog » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:46 pm

Glad to see it coming together. Very wise move getting it stripped straight away. The cleaning is a mare.

Yeah if you premix and sohn the rotor wont get as gunked up

The rest of your list is a no brainer .. perhaps a light flywheel, some new oil cooler lines, uprated oil pressure regulator

You can clean up the intake ports and get some porting templates if your feeling adventurous :)
It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.

More info in my project thread

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by DanBass » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:59 pm

Or ask Ben if he'll do it for you, ;)
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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by Phil Bate » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:01 pm

Tubular manifold before it goes back in maybe
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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilR » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:44 am

I was considering PM'ing Ben about street porting the engine, I'm not sure I would like to do it myself and it's a fair trip to his and back to get it done.
I have looked into a new exhaust manifold but the Racing Beat ones are seriously expensive and I've read mixed reviews of the Toyo one, I'll see how the rebuild goes and decide then.
Thanks for the comments.
Cheers
Phil
Last edited by PhilR on Tue May 13, 2014 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Build thread Pages 1-3 engine rebuild, Pages 4-6 other mods
No1 - Titanium Grey (original and still the best)
No2 - Lightning Yellow with yellow and black interior (sold)
No3 - Nordic Green (scrapped)

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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by DanBass » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:48 am

You could just send him the housings though, I'm sure he wouldn't mind.
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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by Phil Bate » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:34 am

I am thinking of a toyo manifold myself, the only thing that seems to cause problems is the finishing of the surface that mates with the block. For the price they go for I'd be happy to have it machined down flat. As your engine is out you could even set up a jig using the old one, then offer a Toyo up to check it's lined up with the engine out of the car beforehand :)

If you bought it from eBay you can always reject it and get a refund if the quality is way off. Just my thoughts anyway, I'm not a Toyosports salesman or anything!
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Re: PhilR Engine rebuild and minor mods.

Post by PhilR » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:43 pm

Thanks for the replies, I think I have been convinced about the Toyo exhaust manifold (thanks Phil) but I'm still unsure about wrapping it (lots of different views on here).
I have been looking into the up-rated oil pressure regulator, I hadn't seen any mention of it before (thanks Bulldog) and it seems to be another worthwhile upgrade while the engine is out.
I've also polished the intake ports which was fairly straight forward, I used a die grinder with first a grinding stone and then a mini wire brush. It was harder trying to get a good photo to show how shiney they are now, this is my best one.
P1030147 (800x450).jpg
Polished ports.
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I've also finished repainting the front sub-frame, it's not amazingly pretty to look at but it's about rust prevention for hopefully many years and it's only really visable from under the car.
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Painted front sub-frame
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The E-shaft has had a very quick polish and the front stationary bearing surface has survived remarkably well (my main concern), the photo shows a dark line around it but this isn't a score (although it looks like it) and with a little more polishing it will go completely.
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Eccentric shaft.
P1030133 (800x450).jpg (68.17 KiB) Viewed 1295 times
I have also managed to make the adapters to press out the engine bearings and they are now out, I really need to part with the money and buy the full rebuild kit and new bearings.

Thanks again for reading (hopefully I'll see a few of you at Japfest next month).

Phil
Build thread Pages 1-3 engine rebuild, Pages 4-6 other mods
No1 - Titanium Grey (original and still the best)
No2 - Lightning Yellow with yellow and black interior (sold)
No3 - Nordic Green (scrapped)

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