Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

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warpc0il
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by warpc0il » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:57 pm

Oh yes, forgot you're on coilovers.

In that case check that the ride-height rings haven't self-adjusted.

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:15 pm

Ride height collars are equal height on each of the rear coilovers, so that's not the reason for my measured mismatched ride height.

Did notice a bolt had come undone on my rear strut bar (the one that attaches the bar to it's mounting bracket) which was causing that to rattle around.

Couldn't see anything else on the rear suspension that seemed obviously wrong, but I'm clearly out of my depth here, assuming I still have issues. Will drive in an hour or so and have a listen. Don't think it was the strut bar causing the clunk. but who knows could be lucky

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by Vj4sothername » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:29 pm

MightyCondor wrote:Ride height collars are equal height on each of the rear coilovers, so that's not the reason for my measured mismatched ride height.

Did notice a bolt had come undone on my rear strut bar (the one that attaches the bar to it's mounting bracket) which was causing that to rattle around.

Couldn't see anything else on the rear suspension that seemed obviously wrong, but I'm clearly out of my depth here, assuming I still have issues. Will drive in an hour or so and have a listen. Don't think it was the strut bar causing the clunk. but who knows could be lucky

Also... Knob!



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MightyCondor (Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:38 pm)
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by nightfire10 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:23 pm

Stop teasing nigel

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by Harrizone » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:33 pm

It has been known for the bolts holding the brackets at the top of the coilovers to become loose which could result in the knocking.
Now a distant memory unfortunately.

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:25 pm

Just driven up to my parents and still have my mystery clunk

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by mrspiller » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:27 pm

MightyCondor wrote:Just driven up to my parents and still have my mystery clunk Image

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Check the callipers and drop links
I once had a clunk and it was the drop link just need half a turn with big bar as it had started warring


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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by Conan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:50 pm

Hi Alan,
Not enough info to comment on the knock but assuming that has nothing to do with the low corner.
Lift the front hight 10 mm on the shocks mark and turn the same both sides
Lift the low corner at rear to match other rear
Don’t preload the shocks too much ( just a touch)
Try this and see what it’s like, without knowing valveing and spring rates and a good base set up from the manufacturer who probably never tested their product on an RX-8 it’s a long slow process of trial and error to set a car up correctly.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:56 pm

mrspiller wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:27 pm
MightyCondor wrote:Just driven up to my parents and still have my mystery clunk Image

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Check the callipers and drop links
I once had a clunk and it was the drop link just need half a turn with big bar as it had started warring


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Check the caliper mounting bolts are tight.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by New Duke » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:25 pm

Before you go taking bits apart Alan:

I was convinced early this year that one of my arch gaps was 1cm different to the others, and was suspicious of the new PZ suspension (despite it being fitted by bigpete and having been setup by Fergus). I took the car to loads of places with flat surfaces, including my immaculate garage floor, and took measurements to verify that it was the car and not my eye. Then I started investigating potential causes. Basically down the same path as you.

After lots of hair pulling I went back to Fergus and asked him to investigate. He gave me a friendly dressing down and explained my folly in assuming that any flat surface is truly flat, and that the tiniest variance in the ground will throw off ride height measurements. He knows he can accurately measure in his workshop because he has measured the elevation where each wheel sits... to silly accuracy.

Fergus was able to show that on a perfectly level floor, each of my corners was indeed perfectly level. Nothing to see here.

You might have a problem... might just be that.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:55 pm

New Duke wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:25 pm
Before you go taking bits apart Alan:

I was convinced early this year that one of my arch gaps was 1cm different to the others, and was suspicious of the new PZ suspension (despite it being fitted by bigpete and having been setup by Fergus). I took the car to loads of places with flat surfaces, including my immaculate garage floor, and took measurements to verify that it was the car and not my eye. Then I started investigating potential causes. Basically down the same path as you.

After lots of hair pulling I went back to Fergus and asked him to investigate. He gave me a friendly dressing down and explained my folly in assuming that any flat surface is truly flat, and that the tiniest variance in the ground will throw off ride height measurements. He knows he can accurately measure in his workshop because he has measured the elevation where each wheel sits... to silly accuracy.

Fergus was able to show that on a perfectly level floor, each of my corners was indeed perfectly level. Nothing to see here.

You might have a problem... might just be that.

Thanks Haydn. I'm my case it was 2nd hand coilovers (although virtually brand new) fitted by me, so more scope for error there. However both left and right rear are adjusted to the exact same height (I measured the distance between the upper and lower adjustment collars with vernier calipers), so that would mean what that the car itself is uneven, or the ground is...

I had come to the same conclusion re. it not being safe to assume the I've actually measured on perfectly flat ground. I'll try a few more times, and see if I can actually manage more even readings, or at least some variation to prove the point.

Apart from this knock that I need to solve, my priority is to avoid having another trackday like Mallory where I have a car struggling for grip again. All i have actually managed to do so far is grease and reinstall my arb mounts and decide to switch back to my other track wheels for next time. I've not visited Oulton Park before, so don't know how easily I'll run into the cars limits there (not like Mallory which I've done multiple times in different cars so know what both a well setup car and myself as a driver is capable of there).

Thanks to everyone else for the advice. I'm going to check every bolt I can in search of the clunk, maybe replace the droplinks again. We'll see if it's coincidental or not whether or not that I only noticed it after doing the above works. I can sort of believe that freeing up the sway bar (if it was indeed stiff), would allow a droplink issue to shine. I have also managed to have loose brake bolts in the past, so I'm generally quite careful about that now!

Otherwise it's probably time to defer to the professionals if I can't make any progress myself....

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:19 pm

...and the point and associated kudos goes to Wayne. It was the droplink, and I'm now clunk free. The difficultly of trying to sufficiently torque a nylock nut at play again, although it took a few months to loosen just a little. To everyone else, there'll be more chances to play as soon as fate dictates that my ham fisted attempts must come back to bite me again.
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mrspiller (Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:58 pm) • Ainmhidh (Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:01 pm) • ChrisHolmes (Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:17 am)

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by mrspiller » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:59 pm

MightyCondor wrote:...and the point and associated kudos goes to Wayne. It was the droplink, and I'm now clunk free. The difficultly of trying to sufficiently torque a nylock nut at play again, although it took a few months to loosen just a little. To everyone else, there'll be more chances to play as soon as fate dictates that my ham fisted attempts must come back to bite me again.
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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by MightyCondor » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:02 am

The saga continues. I got a free alignment check this morning and apparently my rear wheels have different TOE settings to each other with the o/s toeing in 5.5mm and with n/s pointing out 1.5mm. I don't know how that converts to the degrees and minutes readings that you'd normally see on a printout. Can anyone enlighten me on that? Having the rear wheels doing different things seems like the likeliest cause of my awful handling at Mallory.

Also I'm suspecting that I have some play in my steering rack. After I first went to Fergus for my alignment, the steering wheel position moved compared to when the car was on his workshop floor and I had to go back for an adjustment. It seems slightly off again to me now, but also it feels slightly sloppy to me. I'm guessing it would be wise to have this looked at before having my alignment corrected. What would the likely cause be?

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Re: Once you go black.... (Condor's PZ)

Post by mrspiller » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:06 am

That’ll be your twitchy car then ......
You can get this done with online calculators . Pretty easy to use
1-1.5 toe in on rears is set up for track oriented car . Any more than that and you’ll scrub the inside edge away slowly


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