Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by warpc0il » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:15 pm

It's called, "If it's not broke, don't fix it" ! :D
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by casey » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:21 pm

OK, maybe should ask a different question - anyone know of ground electrode failure with OEM coils?
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by mrspiller » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:41 pm

ChrisHolmes wrote:
mrspiller wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:10 pm
I’ve done 5000. Track miles in 6 years
I do take them out annually and soak in brake cleaner , that’s about it


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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by warpc0il » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:42 pm

The only examples I've handled were with oem coils but I suspect that the causes may have been more mechanical than electrical, or thermal.


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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by V8 Power » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:44 pm

When i bought my track car off eBay 6 years ago i changed the plugs and that had one plug with electrode missing/failure.
They were oem coils but I have no idea of the mileage on either the plugs or coils.
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by boosted » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:14 pm

Lemon wrote:i am running a set of RRP coils, however i do also have a weeping injector which probably doesn't help with matters
Are you working Stu? Good time to get that uim off and injectors out?

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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by ChrisHolmes » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:46 pm

Guess what I found in my plug “stock” a BUR9EQP T
Got my vernier Calipers out and the measurements are below, taken from the end of the body ( where the gasket sits) to the tip of electrode or surface for the BUR9EQP T

BUR9EQP..T..................21.90
RE7CL........................22.65
RE9BT........................20.80

Trailing plug hole depth...21.37
Leading plug hole depth...23.52

So if you fit the BUR9EQP T into the trailing plug hole of an RX8 housing it is going to bottom out as it is .53mm / .021” longer than the hole depth. The RE9BT plug length is 1.1mm / .043”shorter and clears the bottom of the plug hole by .57mm / .022”
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by warpc0il » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:17 pm

"bottom out" :shock: that could break it, and possibly damage the housing
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by mrspiller » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:31 pm

Total novice here
How much gap is there between the seal and end of plug ?


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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by qwakers » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:07 pm

Lemon wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:47 am
qwakers wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:51 pm
that is the third time in less than a year that ive seen a rx8 plug fail like that !
mine included?

i'd wondered if the electrode had burnt away whilst on track.
yes indeed.

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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by warpc0il » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:27 pm

Spark erosion tends to eat the centre (positive) electrode rather than the ground.

If you check a plug that's be left for way too many miles then the gap is excessive because the centre is worn right down, but the ground electrode often shows almost no wear.

The ground electrodes can overheat, especially in protruding tip (suffix-P in NGK) options, where they extend out into the combustion chamber and are attacked from all sides by the flame front - mostly on racing two-strokes.

Rotary plugs have the opposite challenge as they sit totally outside the combustion chamber and only manage to ignite the charge through a tiny hole in the side.

I can't see a way that the ground electrode could be burnt away in normal service, even if there was a overheating issue.

It's possible that damage could be caused if the engine was run with the plug loose enough that gases were escaping via the plug hole, but that should be obvious from other evidence.

I think it's much more likely that there was either;
- a manufacturing fault
- damage caused by an attempt to adjust the gap
- damage caused to the plug, e.g. dropping it, before it was fitted
- damage caused to the plug by something, e.g. previous broken bit, inside the plug hole
- damage caused by being fitted into the ring hole, even if this was corrected before the engine was run.
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by ChrisHolmes » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:33 pm

I fitted the plugs new and so that leaves just option 1)
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by warpc0il » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:47 pm

They might have been dropped before they got to you... :D
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by casey » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:09 pm

Just spotted this in another topic:
Ryan Rotary Performance wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:14 pm
......My recommendations are:

Naturally Aspirated.
Leading NGK RE7C-L or RE8C-L
Trailing NGK RE9B-T

Forced Induction anything up to 1 bar

Leading NGK BUR9EQP
Trailing NGK RE9B-T
So it seems RRP feel it's OK to use the BUR9EQP as the leading plug on a Renesis, which seems to be the one that is prone to failure. That should be OK, based on Chris' measurements, as the BUR9EQP is slightly shorter than the RE7CL.
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by ChrisHolmes » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:19 pm

Hmm! Well spotted Malcolm, looks like I need to buy a plug and try it.
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by Ryan Rotary Performance » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:37 pm

ChrisHolmes wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:19 pm
Hmm! Well spotted Malcolm, looks like I need to buy a plug and try it.
I try to post helpful stuff sometimes! :)
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:13 pm

Lightning may well not strike twice in the same place but strangely my drivers side anti rattle plate had managed to disappear again! Last August when looking at the brake pads I found there was now anti rattle plate in the DS Caliper and out it down to someone previously not fitting it. I clearly owe that person an apology because I just discovered that again there is no anti rattle plate in the DS caliper and I know it was in there because I fitted the thing.
Other than it splitting across the centre where the retaining bolt and sleeve apply pressure I cannot see how it could work it’s way out.
Any ideas anyone?
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by Velocity_Dan93 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:29 pm

ChrisHolmes wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:13 pm
Lightning may well not strike twice in the same place but strangely my drivers side anti rattle plate had managed to disappear again! Last August when looking at the brake pads I found there was now anti rattle plate in the DS Caliper and out it down to someone previously not fitting it. I clearly owe that person an apology because I just discovered that again there is no anti rattle plate in the DS caliper and I know it was in there because I fitted the thing.
Other than it splitting across the centre where the retaining bolt and sleeve apply pressure I cannot see how it could work it’s way out.
Any ideas anyone?
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by qwakers » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:33 pm

i'm assuming they're not standard calipers (been a while and i cant remember for sure) if so, any chance of a exploded diagram to muse over...?

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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:50 pm

Try these photos and you will see why I reason it has snapped in the middle from fatigue. As you can see the anti rattle plate is a substantial beast.
Sloping pad wear too despite having checked the pistons and seals previously!
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:54 pm

Velocity_Dan93 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:29 pm
ChrisHolmes wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:13 pm
Lightning may well not strike twice in the same place but strangely my drivers side anti rattle plate had managed to disappear again! Last August when looking at the brake pads I found there was now anti rattle plate in the DS Caliper and out it down to someone previously not fitting it. I clearly owe that person an apology because I just discovered that again there is no anti rattle plate in the DS caliper and I know it was in there because I fitted the thing.
Other than it splitting across the centre where the retaining bolt and sleeve apply pressure I cannot see how it could work it’s way out.
Any ideas anyone?
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Re: Supercharged RX-8 Engine Renaissance

Post by Vj4sothername » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:55 pm

ChrisHolmes wrote:Try these photos and you will see why I reason it has snapped in the middle from fatigue. As you can see the anti rattle plate is a substantial beast.
Sloping pad wear too despite having checked the pistons and seals previously!
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