***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

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***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by casey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:07 pm

I booked this a few weeks ago, but when I checked the the day after booking, it was already sold out - I must have go the last place! Hence I didn't post up to see if anyone wanted to join me :(

Just posting here as a placemarker. I'll hopefully put up a few pics and video, plus a report of how my first trackday went under the new covid-19 rules.
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by ChrisHolmes » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:15 pm

Hope you are not a lone RX8er Malcolm.
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by warpc0il » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:32 pm

Well, he is riding a Silver :D
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by ChrisHolmes » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:55 pm

Hi oh!
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by casey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:09 pm

LOL. No Tonto, just me, the Lone Ranger ;)
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***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by GreySilver Beast » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:41 am

Have a fantastic day Malcolm =D> - Events Team
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by ChrisHolmes » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:44 am

I hope you have your sun cream with you.
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by casey » Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:57 pm

Sun cream packed ;)

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Car all set for tomorrow, complete with a set of bronze 17" wheels and some used Dunlop Direzza semi slicks, courtesy of a very generous Ranjan =D>
2020-07-21 18.44.09.jpg
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by Harrizone » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:04 pm

Looking good Malcolm :thumleft: . Have a great day.
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by New Duke » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:38 pm

Hope you have fun! Looking forward to reading about it.
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by brix79 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:45 pm

Have fun Malcolm!
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by casey » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:06 pm

Four good sessions so far, now stopped for lunch. Car going well. Had a slight scare when one tyre lost about 8lbs. However, have carefully done two sessions and it's been fine. Suspect slight loss from bead seal when I may have been aggressive over the kerbs!
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by casey » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:58 pm

I had a mixed day yesterday but, overall, a very enjoyable one. It was so good to get out on track again!

The weather was superb, a very slight (refreshing) breeze, warm with sunny intervals. An interesting mix of race to standard-ish cars were present. Two vans (!), a race prepped Ford Anglia 105E, some race and standard BMW’s, loads of old/new Fords, Honda Civic and Prelude, several MX-5’s (from std to race spec), Subaru’s, a Mini, 2 Fiat 500 Arbarths, Caterham’s, an Ariel Atom, several Porsches (Inc a GT3), two Ginettas (G20 I think, and a G40), a Morgan Plus 4 and some single seater closed wheel rockets. No queuing to get out, apart from few short Red Flag incidents (see below :oops: XXXX).

Here is the line up for the 2nd sighting lap session:
2020-07-22 09.16.03.jpg
If anyone is concerned about how safe trackdays are with the new rules, don’t be. Everything is well organised and there is plenty of space to follow the rules and stay safe. Check-in and briefing is done online prior to the event. On the day, you just have to show your license to the track staff behind a Perspex screen and receive a wristband which you put on yourself. There are plenty of toilets open and extra wash stations have been added to the outside walls of buildings too.

Getting back to the track action, my morning sessions were going well, with lap times on “Race Chrono” (no live timing visible I must stress) dropping by around a second for each of the 4 sessions I did before lunch. Ignore the track session duration, I left Race Chrono running well beyond coming back into the garage, the lap numbers are correct, so about 15-20 min sessions.
2020-07-22 22.41.45.jpg
I then experienced a weird issue whereby I was at the end of a cool down lap and my TPMS (Tyre Pressure) alarm sounded, showing 25psi in the rear left tyre. The other tyres were showing about 33psi I think. I came in to my garage extra carefully, put the tyre back to 32 hot and watched it drop to ~29psi over ~15 minutes in the pit garage. I inspected the tyre, rim and valve carefully and couldn’t see any issue. So, I overinflated to around 40psi, in case it was a bead sealing issue (too aggressive on the kerbs maybe :?: ;) ), then set it back to 32psi. On the next session, the tyre behaved “normally” and gained 3lb as the temp rose.

Next issue was me, in my first session after lunch, having to pull off the track in a safe place due to a very concerning front passenger front tyre/wheel/brake noise. I was a long way from the track exit and didn’t want to risk driving further on the track at very low speed. This is the very first time I can recall when I have caused a Red Flag :oops: . The recovery guy cane out to me. We had a quick look, nothing obviously amiss. I pulled and kicked the tyre, which seemed solidly attached, so I drove back slowly to the pit garage via the infield roads.

Back in the garage I find 4 of the 5 wheelnuts very loose, the remaining one requiring a slight use of a socket to loosen it. The wheel was (seemingly at least) still firmly attached via the centre ring and one nut. This seemed baffling, I had checked the torque (110N-m) twice that day already. I borrowed another torque wrench for a random check and it behaved the same as mine. A bit of head scratching and (socially distanced) taking to a few other driver/mechanics revealed the issue might be that the wheels had been powdercoated and it seems the powdercoat was present UNDER where the (flat in the case, not cone) lug nuts seated. Powdercoat typically softens between 60 and 110 Celsius. At Snetterton, the most stressed wheel is the front left, so it’s very likely the powdercoat would have melted, so lessening the torque and allowing the nuts to loosen.
I retightened the nuts to a slightly higher 120N-m and did 3 laps, with my senses turned up full! I came back in and 4 of the nuts took a slight (maybe 1/8 turn) to re-torque. That removed my confidence and I decided to pack up at 4pm and head home.

I shall post up some video hi-low lights of the day as soon as I’ve done some editing.
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by New Duke » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:31 pm

I'm glad you got some laps in Malcolm. I'm also happy to see that you weren't swamped by race teams like we were last month. Hopefully my experience was an anomaly of the tracks all reopening and teams rushing to get a session in, and has now calmed down. The fellow cars you had there was a very different picture to how it was for us and I'm jealous!

You have waited for so many red flags caused by other people that there's no shame in causing a rare one yourself. Especially when it is to prevent an accident. Good thing you noticed the noise and pulled over when you did.

I know that lots of race cars run low torque on the nuts due to them heating up, the Ginetta's have them as low as 80nm :shock: . But I think 110 and even 120nm is too low. Like you I've found the stress of track work has loosened RX8 wheel nuts, even on wheels that haven't been powder coated (or ever re-painted) and with original and aftermarket MRP nuts. I now do all mine up to 140nm.

Might be worth getting your torque wrench recalibrated or buy a new one given how relatively inexpensive they are. (I'm sure you've considered all of that so I'm just typing it out for future generations)
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by Ranjan » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:49 am

Malcolm,

Sorry I should have warned you to check the nuts after each run because these Enkei wheels take flat head nuts and not the usual tapered ones. It has nothing to do with the powder coating and everything to do with the reduced surface area of the nut to the wheel.

Also, do not over tighten to compensate as this does no good, keep to the recommended torque settings.

Keep safe.

Ranjan.
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by New Duke » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:26 am

The service bulletin 02-002/04 corrects the owners manual figures for torque settings and says to do them up to 147nm. So prob wise to tighten them up a fair bit :thumright:

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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by Harrizone » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:56 am

Glad you had a reasonably good day Malcolm, not that I am at all jealous. :evil:
Ranjan wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:49 am
Enkei wheels take flat head nuts and not the usual tapered ones
Ranjan.
Without a doubt this would have been the recurring problem, New nuts required if you intend to run these again :thumleft: . More to the point how did the 17" wheels perform and the tyre combination :?:
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by nightfire10 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:47 pm

Clean!

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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by casey » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:45 pm

Ranjan wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:49 am
Malcolm,

Sorry I should have warned you to check the nuts after each run because these Enkei wheels take flat head nuts and not the usual tapered ones. It has nothing to do with the powder coating and everything to do with the reduced surface area of the nut to the wheel.

Also, do not over tighten to compensate as this does no good, keep to the recommended torque settings.

Keep safe.

Ranjan.
Thanks for confirming this is not abnormal for this wheel fixing type Ranjan. It does seem very odd though, why did Enkei do this? I've never experienced any issues with the "usual" taper design (except for the one occasion I forgot to torque up one wheel :oops:). What are the advantages of the flat head design?
New Duke wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:26 am
The service bulletin 02-002/04 corrects the owners manual figures for torque settings and says to do them up to 147nm. So prob wise to tighten them up a fair bit :thumright:
Yes, I recall that TSB Haydn. I've always found 110-115 N-m sufficient in the past, so have stuck with that, conscious of not wanting to damage/stretch/overstress the threads involved. I will check the number of turns of the nut to get full engagement, for an M12x1.5 nut I should have about 8 turns. If I do have that full engagement then I might try a higher torque, but maybe not at high as 147N-m. I did have to remove ~2-3 mm of the lugs when I fitted 15mm spacers, to ensure my wheels mated flat, so this will have reduced the thread engagement by 1-2 turns, but that shouldn't be significant. I have removed the spacers as the ET on the Enkeis seems to be about -15 relative to the stock wheels anyway, and I was concerned about wheel arch rubbing under heavy cornering.

I will also double-check that the nuts are not bottoming out (I'm 99.9% sure this isn't an issue).
Harrizone wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:56 am
..........how did the 17" wheels perform and the tyre combination :?:
The most noticeable thing was the sharper/quicker turn-in, which felt really good. Grip was certainly on a par (if not better) than the 595RSR's, but they did take a little longer to warm up to full grip. The tyres were very confidence inspiring, as can be seen by my pushing harder through the morning and lap times improving. The 2m 26.46s best time is very close to my PB lap time at Snetterton. I feel If I'd carried on into the pm session with the same confidence, I could have improved another second or 2. Another positive feature of the overall slightly smaller rolling diameter was that I could leave the car in 3rd gear out of the hairpin, whereas I'd normally have to grab 2nd. So, overall, I did like the combination and I'm keen to try it again. It was also much better to take Bombhole all the way through Coram in 4th, dropping to 3rd for the exit. So, 3rd and 4th gears only on a clear lap, unless caught behind a slower car entering a corner, where I would drop to 2nd to get better acceleration off the apex.

Hopefully, I'll get some video up shortly.... ;)
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:24 pm

New Duke wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:26 am
The service bulletin 02-002/04 corrects the owners manual figures for torque settings and says to do them up to 147nm. So prob wise to tighten them up a fair bit :thumright:
108lbs ft in old speak is a huge torque for a stud/bolt of that size. As wheels haven’t been falling off all over the place due to sheared studs or cracked wheels clearly it’s fine but I won’t be torquing mine to 147nm!
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by New Duke » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:45 pm

ChrisHolmes wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:24 pm
New Duke wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:26 am
The service bulletin 02-002/04 corrects the owners manual figures for torque settings and says to do them up to 147nm. So prob wise to tighten them up a fair bit :thumright:
108lbs ft in old speak is a huge torque for a stud/bolt of that size. As wheels haven’t been falling off all over the place due to sheared studs or cracked wheels clearly it’s fine but I won’t be torquing mine to 147nm!
I agree it is huge Chris. So was just repeating Mazda's approved torque for the S1 18s. The S2 owners manual gives the wheel nut torque for the 19s as anywhere between 88-118nm.

My neighbour is a fixings specialist for the one of the few car manufacturers that actually still use them to set accurate torque values for every bolt when designing cars. Most manufacturers these days just have the relevant department heads take an educated guess. So who knows whether when Mazda found that some S1 RX8 wheels were coming loose they referred the matter to a fixings specialist or simply said 'meh, tighten it up more... it'll be fine'.

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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by ChrisHolmes » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:55 pm

I recall there was an issue with wheels making a clicking sound at parking speeds when manoeuvring which was sorted by increasing the tightening torque.
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by casey » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:56 pm

Back on track, as it were ;)

Short video compilation - watch to the end to see my me and my car being ignominiously towed off the circuit under a Red Flag :oops:

Fastest lap of the day included....

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Essex Rotary Full Bridgeport

Seibon Carbon Fibre Bonnet
"Racing Brake" front calipers, Racing Beat (RB) ARB's F&R, RB REVI intake, full RB Stainless Steel Exhaust & Mani, 20mm Eibach spacers, KOYO Ali Rad, Lightened Fly, Tein MonoFlex coilovers & strut brace, Axial short-shifter, BHR Coils & Engine Mounts, Greddy Sump
Federal 595RS-R or Rainsport 3

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Ranjan
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Re: ***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by Ranjan » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:57 pm

Nice driving and lines; only comment - hold a tighter line through Corum and let the car drift out under power.

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***TRACKDAY Snetterton - Wednesday 22 July - SOLD OUT***

Post by GreySilver Beast » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:50 pm

I'm nicking your latest video Malcolm :twisted: - Events Team
GSB-TDU - Committee - Events Coordinator & Events Team Admin
RX-8OC Club Calendar
NPT Website
GSB III 03/08/13 - Present

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